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I would like your help in assessing these Imari items that I came across at a local shop. I felt they had nice execution with the design and painting so I snapped a couple pictures. They also have an interesting mark I am unfamiliar with. Are they Chinese or Japanese? Age?... Quality?... In my ignorance I am guessing Chinese early 19th C. What do you guys think? John
Looks like koransha red orchid mark. Are there three items? From what I can see they all look like late Meiji, the bowl may be later. Sorry if this hasn't come over clearly, my screen is being temperamental!
@julia Thanks Julia! So basically I was wrong about the country and the century, but maybe not wrong about the nice quality. I think I just took pictures of the bowl and vase, although there was at least one other item there, and maybe even two others, that had the same mark.
The red mark is that of Fukagawa koransha and dates from about 1880-1900.
The other one is also Japanese and probably early 20th century.
Mark
Hi John,
Agree with Julia and Mark.
If you have a choice of three items that are similar, choose the vase, then the bowl, then the plate.
There is some saying in China that a vase is standing, a bowl is sitting, and a plate is lying down...
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
@watership Thanks for that bit of advice. Sounds like a wise strategy.
Hi Johnshoe,
Out of curiosity how much are they asking for the vase?
Mark
@imperialfinegems I didn't write it down so we have to rely on my aging memory, but I want to say in the range of $150. What do you think it's value is?
Hi Johnshoe,
In my opinion the asking price of $150 is probably its market price or close to it.
Fukagawa Koransha is collectable and desirable. However the higher end ones are more elaborate and thus expensive etc etc. Size also is important!
If you were to negotiate on said vase I would highly recommend that you check for any damage or repairs. If any then it's value plummets by up to 80%.
I did try and quickly find one similar to the one you are looking at. This one is the closest I could find atm. It's obviously better design and also has a painters signature along with the scented orchid mark.
This is an example of a higher-end production. I bought this pair a few years back on ebay.
Depending on why you want to buy the vase. For yourself because you like it or because you want to resell it at some time. If it's because you like it then somewhere between $100-130. If it's to resell then no more than $60.
Hope this helps you!
Mark
Hi @johnshoe
Koransha (and Fukagawa) can often be difficult due to the nature of both later re-introducing earlier designs over the years, but due to the body, kiln grit, and composition of the enamel along with the hues; I find this example to be most consistent with pieces from the later 1870s to (possibly) later 1880s.
As for the value, I’m thinking Mark is giving you an auction estimate - which may be accurate to a degree given a few scenarios; but you’d likely sell this retailed at a fixed price yourself which is an important clarification for margins.
On a platform for the common collectors like eBay, I’d expect to see this selling (given the size and assumed condition) for no less than $300, arguably more - but as Mark wisely advised: keep your own liking of the piece in mind, because sometimes retail can sit for a while!
I’m sure a hairline or two may drop the value a bit - but 80% is rather drastic for types like this; given the fact that it’s already a collector driven market (retail heavy, auctioned not regularly), and this is a rather sizable piece.
Earlier this year I got offered $300 for mine which is much smaller, with two hairlines - but decided to keep it as an earlier example for future comparison of others.
Admittedly it was a stronger price, but also from somebody who has the ability to justify such - which is why retailing tends to be better currently.
You should, ideally though, be buying for your readily reachable market per rule of thumb - or more widely accessible ones in the event of coming across a bargain.
Your results may vary, but hope this helps!
Best,
-JRN
(Also, for context added: just noticed the auction example provided earlier was from late 2008, namely a few months after the world financial crisis had just seen its worse chapter realized, and the markets were still largely in free-fall.
Japanese had made a slight climb back from it’s post boom plummet over the early 2000s, but still remained a shell of its former market hold - and most of these collectors were still middle class; far more in the west were immediately concerned with keeping their homes or addressing larger assets widely depreciating value than buying decorative art.
Japan itself [the other marketplace for these collectors] had far lesser impact on itself from the subprime mortgage comparatively; but still saw its GDP drastically fall even worse than many western nations, and also take a much longer time to stabilize and then attempt to begin recovery afterwards).
Sorry for “information overload”, but I feel when referencing past prices as a current standard - it’s often equally (usually more) helpful to reference surrounding factors of a sale, it’s overall performance, or the external pressures/events facing that particular time of occurrence.
Best regards,
-JRN
JRN,
I normally find your style of writing difficult to decipher. But at this point it feels almost like a prank. This last post above....I find it hard to believe you are not rolling on the ground after writing it. Parts of it are indecipherable to the point that, I admit, I was entertained.
Or perhaps you are using a translating app from another language? But I don’t think this is the case, as that is usually recognizable, and your writing would look quite different.
If this is not a prank:
I find that if I take the time, I am able to decipher your posts, for the most part. But it takes quite a while and I am guessing most people simply have given up.
You tend to include multiple ideas into one long sentence. And often, you bury one thought, inside another thought, inside another thought. Almost like a Russian nesting doll. And then, towards the end of that same sentence, you continue the 1st thought. So, it is a Russian nesting doll with a theorized worm hole...
I believe your posts are helpful and add to the forum. You have a wealth of knowledge in the Japanese field. Its just a shame that more people cannot be benefactors of that knowledge, due to communication difficulties.
So, in conclusion, maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is just me who is having difficulty. But I think if you can simplify a bit, less will be more. (When I say “simplify” I mean the style, not the length.) If you are unable to alter your writing style for whatever reason, I feel your posts will still be a worthy, valuable contribution. No question about that.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hey Todd,
I appreciate the critique in general; and will do my best to be cognizant of that input going forward with future posts.
Admittedly I do tend to get wordy sometimes (per personal habit), so I apologize if that is an inconvenience -and can understand some confusion arising, or even annoyance.
(Which I apologize for if so).
As per the issue of coherence: I tend to be detail oriented, which seems to get “lost in translation” perhaps... Apologies again if problematic in the attempt at execution.
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving in a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Keys that jingle in your pocket, words that jangle in your head
Why did summer go so quickly, was it something that you said?
Lovers walking along a shore and leave their footprints in the sand
Is the sound of distant drumming just the fingers of your hand?
Pictures hanging in a hallway and the fragment of a song
Half remembered names and faces, but to whom do they belong?
When you knew that it was over you were suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning to the color of her hair!
Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
As the images unwind, like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!
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