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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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I think I made a HUGE mistake! SONG dynasty?

 
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
Topic starter 20/05/2022 8:50 pm  
4CDE6DC2 29D9 415C B720 02707FB3DF33
FFE9F7C0 B0C7 491C A786 FEDDA9EDCC38

Did I screw up in this?

I saw these footed bowls with white matte glaze and rice size fret marks.

At the time, I thought little of the bowls, but I now see narcissus bowls were quite popular in the Song Dynasty.

What do you all think? 

FC10A06B ECA0 4C03 ACDB 909D58C95731
13CD426D 8848 481A BF1F FA029E70E3B6

 


   
Jeremy Beer reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
20/05/2022 9:06 pm  

Tim,

Can we see the face, or the inside of the narcissus pot?  Looks 19th century to me, but I love the glaze that still seems to flow outside of the Kiln...

Jeremy


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4251
20/05/2022 9:09 pm  

I think it’s got a very soothing glaze makes it seem classy. Did you buy it?


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
Topic starter 20/05/2022 9:21 pm  

@lotusblack 

@jbeer2121

I did not buy them - I’ve had little interest among my clients with white monochrome pieces.

I’m not been successful differentiating Qing copies of Song wares, and the bowls were not cheap, so I passed on them.

If I could get confirmation that they were actually Song, I’d be more than happy to make the 12 hour round trip drive to go buy them.

These are all the pictures I have - sorry.


   
William Huvar, Jeremy Beer and Sharon P reacted
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
Topic starter 20/05/2022 9:28 pm  

BTW… 

In the photo with the price tag, you can see the glaze is a pale blue gray.

Tell me this isn’t some type of Ru ware … I’m suffering about walking away from these.


   
Sharon P reacted
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
Topic starter 20/05/2022 9:32 pm  

Palace museum Song Dynasty lobed bowl

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/warming-bowl-in-the-shape-of-a-flower-with-light-bluish-green-glaze-ju-ware-northern-song-dynasty/CwEMk3izzM4jXw

 


   
Jeremy Beer, Sharon P and Brian Crowe reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7258
21/05/2022 2:18 am  

Given their rarity, I would be surprised if they were, especially as these are less common shapes on a less common foot. All I know about these wares, aside from rarity, it that they are beautiful and forgive me saying, the fluting on these seems to lack elegance, especially the bending over of the upper part.

Do Ru pieces have the orange peel effect? I hope someone can help put your mind at rest, but my feeling is you were probably right in your first instinct. From the photos they look late qing to me.


   
Sharon P, Greeno107, Ming1449 and 1 people reacted
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
21/05/2022 6:15 am  

@greeno107 

Hi Greeno - 

Concur with Julia, from the images the shape, overall proportions and glaze characteristics seem to lack the aesthetic elegance seen on Song wares. The fluting/roundness to the sides and mouthrim edges is much to sharp and pronounced, somewhat lacking the elegance seen on Song examples …  

This form seems to be based upon/coping know Song narcissus  basins, but these always have a plain mouthrim edge, never ‘scolloped’ as with this example …

Copies of Song shapes/glazes were subsequently produced during the Yuan, Ming and especially Qing dynasties, but these all exhibit differing characteristics to Song originals …

Personally, I think you did the right thing by leaving alone …

Stuart 

 

 


   
Jeremy Beer, Sharon P, Greeno107 and 2 people reacted
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
Topic starter 21/05/2022 9:43 am  

Thank you, all!

I feel a little less panicked, and in hindsight, I think the glaze does not have the smoothness of Song pieces.  Coulple that with the exposed feet and the everted lobed rim, I think I spared myself dissapointment.

But, I have yet to find a match for these bowls, so if anyone comes across another, please post. 

I did find this Yongzheng M&P bowl that shares some features, but still clearly some differences.

http://elogedelart.canalblog.com/archives/2011/04/12/20881166.html


   
Ming1449, Jeremy Beer and Sharon P reacted
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