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Hello fellow members,
I picked up this plate at a local thrift store a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what I've got here, thinking it might be mid-late 19th century (or 20th century), but haven't had much luck finding a similar one searching on google (but that is probably a search word issue, rather than a rarity indication ? ). The plate is 23cm in diameter. Some of the red/yellow enamels seem rather brittle and damaged. It has a reign mark that I haven't been able to identify.
Help and nudges in the right direction are, as always, appreciated. Thanks.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Second batch of pictures.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
It's a Qianlong mark, but the plate is Guangxu or early Republic in my opinion. I really envy you for always finding such nice things.
Birgit
Dear Iluvatar,
in my opinion you have a not common Xianfeng plate there, and of unusual high quality.
The enamels, motif, and especially the way of depictung butterflies is typical to Xianfeng.
Rare especially of that big size.
Well done!
Giovanni
Dear Iluvatar,
in my opinion you have a not common Xianfeng plate there, and of unusual high quality.
The enamels, motif, and especially the way of depictung butterflies is typical to Xianfeng.
Rare especially of that big size.
Well done!
Giovanni
Hi Giovanni, that is an interesting observation. I checked Christies to see if I could find some examples that would support this, and lo and behold, this pair of cups showed up.
The painting style of the fruits (gourds?) is very similar. But what would make me think of a later date would be the grit on the footrim, although the porcelain looks kinda right. Is grit common/uncommen on xianfeng pieces, or something that should not be there?
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Yes I think kiln grit is common on C19th export ware. This plate , although decorated in a somewhat chinese taste , is I think an export shape, whereas the Christies' bowls are more for the home China market (maybe they are not imperial bowls , but mark and period) .
Yours I would say is very good quality , and a great find. These long-tailed butterflies are quite distinctive. If Giovanni thinks they are xianfeng, then they almost certainly are. Many years ago now I had two small bowls with similar butterflies; at the time I had no clue what they were and must have sold them very cheaply.
tam
The mark on the plate looks stamped to me, which led me to believe it was made in Guangxu or later. Or is the mark painted so carefully that I mistook it for a stamp?
Birgit
Hi Shinigami,
I think the red stamping began in Tongzhi (or just before in Xianfeng) because there are many tongzhi examples with stamps; as far as I can see, the mark on this plate is stamped, rather than written.
tam
Lovely plate, you do find nice things!
Like Shinigami, I would have gone for a later date in the 19th c/early 20th c because of the grit and the stamped mark but it is so useful to learn that this also occurred earlier than I thought.
Julia
Dear Shinigami, Tam, all,
yes the mark is printed and as said by Tam it is known that there are Tongzhi vessels marked this way.
Just a note about butterflies. Many years ago I did collect butterflies; perhaps because of that I have a particular attention to them. It has always intrigued me one fact: in Chinese iconography, naturalistic subjects are always clearly identifiable; a dog is a dog, an horse is an horse, a magnolia is a magnolia, and so on. Strangely, butterflies are always represented in a phantasy manner. I have never seen a butterfly that it is clearly identifiable to one of the common species.
Why that? I do not know, I suppose that butterfly could have some special meaning, like symbolizing something, but never found a clear answer.
Coming back to the dish in question, the butterfly represented in that particular way, like this one and those on Tam’s cup, I have only seen on Xianfeng ware. Those delicate colors of the enamels too are common during Xianfeng, while during Tongzhi they are “harder” in general.
But it is good to keep in mind that Xianfeng lasted for only 10 years and taste doesn’t change abruptly while transitioning from one imperial period to another. So this dish could well be early Tongzhi actually; but the style is more Xianfeng to Tongzhi IMO.
Giovanni
I forgot a further note. The decoration on the cups sold by Christies, dated Xianfeng, is clearly very similar to that of this dish, and yes, I would not bother so much about the grit on the foot, it depends from kiln, potter, and so on.
Giovanni
This plate just ooze's quality regardless of whether it is from one reign or another close by.
Just stunning colour array and large. A gem!
Mark
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