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Hellp ID Yongzheng teacup & saucer

 
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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Topic starter 01/09/2022 8:49 pm  

 

9512FD59 5AD4 47FA A7F1 01D68BEBA9F9
39E30990 8D98 46DD BC5F 72539EF87ECB
8902FD72 A2CF 46F2 8E8B 34EF6D67D5CE
90AB2748 6F2F 4B33 83CA 41BE070E74AD
BC16288B BE12 4EC7 B73F DD061E3DBBC0

I picked up this sweet teacup and saucer.  Appears to be Yongzheng based upon the  ’pig’s hair’ in porcelain, but I can’t find the design.

Does anyone recognize this style? I’d like to confirm it is Yongzheng if possible.

Bothe the cup and plate are essentially square with the corners faceted which creates an octagon-like shape.

Small sides have bamboo and lingzhi mushrooms symbolizing long life.

Larger panels have prunus and peony on two panels, and what looks like some type of lily on the other two panels.

 


   
Shine, Sharon P, Jeremy Beer and 1 people reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
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01/09/2022 9:09 pm  

They look rather thickly potted, or am I seeing that wrong? Maybe it's just the angle. At any rate the only cups I've handled from 18th c were all very thin porcelain. I'd love to see those bases.


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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Topic starter 01/09/2022 9:13 pm  

 

9DF7500E 8823 43CC BE3A 5853519C1D45
C92D76B1 D53E 41E9 A658 33006212DC19
1E4867FD E63C 4D29 B09C 1462D801D0AF

@johnshoe It’s very thinly potted… great translucency.

 


   
Sharon P, Jeremy Beer and Adams Asian Art reacted
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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Topic starter 01/09/2022 9:20 pm  

In other discussions, I mentioned how in early 18th c famille rose, that the red and white were mixed to create pink, and consequently there are often a lot of surface bubbles in the enamel from the reaction during firing due to being a new technique.

This is a good example of what I’m talking about…

53EA389B 078D 4142 A8A2 A3B788B3AEDF

 


   
William Huvar, AL Boo, Sharon P and 1 people reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
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01/09/2022 9:24 pm  

Could these be late Kangxi?


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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Topic starter 01/09/2022 9:28 pm  

@johnshoe There are some ‘Rose’ wares from the late Kangxi… but very rare, so possible but unlikely. 


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7012
01/09/2022 9:41 pm  

Beautiful cup and saucer. 

In my opinion it's very late Kangxi period through to Yongzheng period. 

If you are a member of Facebook I believe that Robert McPherson runs a page therein. He would definitely know and provide you with good reference material. 

Mark 


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
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01/09/2022 9:51 pm  

Here are some cups that appear to have similar shapes. How does the height compare?

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2018/chinese-art-hk0830/lot.325.html


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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Topic starter 01/09/2022 10:34 pm  

@johnshoe My cup is 8cm tall... but it is not a true octagon.  

@imperialfinegems I might give McPherson a try if nothing turns up here, but we've got some great detectives in our group.


   
Jeremy Beer, AL Boo and Sharon P reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
01/09/2022 11:10 pm  

@greeno107 

Hey Tim,

Beautiful Yongzheng cup and saucer.  I would date these to right about 1730-35, that gilt red brown border fits and so does the form, and the enamels are just spot on.  Here is the same shape as yours, but a different design.

I'll look in the morning but I swear I remember a similar pattern in maybe the reeves collection.

Cheers,

Jeremy

https://www.artfoxlive.com/product/5925816.html

https://www.cohenandcohen.co.uk/objectdetail/782179/17666/set-of-six-chinese-porcelain-famille

 


   
William Huvar, Julia, Shine and 2 people reacted
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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Topic starter 01/09/2022 11:31 pm  

@jbeer2121 Thanks, Jeremy!  That is definately the form.  The design of mine is a bit easier on the eyes in my opinion than that flower basket motif.  The brown gilt borders look like the frame of an ornate window... it's like looking out at a garden, or perhaps into a terrarium.


   
Jeremy Beer and Sharon P reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
02/09/2022 9:12 am  

@greeno107 

Hey Tim,

I agree yours is far more pleasing, I don't really find the ones I linked attractive at all actually.  I love the thought of a little terrarium cup...

I did dig around my books and didn't find the pattern, but did find the gilt brown border on a teapot dated to 1735, different design too, but definitely the same type.

Hope it helps,

Jeremy

IMG 1605
IMG 1606

Also just as a side note, in researching this plate I have which I am fairly certain is Yongzheng (though the range of production is quite large, 1720-1760s or so) I came across quite a few instances of blended enamels, and it does seem that by late Yongzheng and early Qianlong, they were far better blended and cohesive.  On my plate it is blue and white that is almost swirled together, but not mixed properly.  Just a shot of that as well.

bdlrs 2

   
Julia, Greeno107, William Huvar and 1 people reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
02/09/2022 2:06 pm  

@greeno107 

Tim,

Okay now its bugging me because I know I have seen the exact design of your cup and saucer, and I can help but keep searching for where it was.....  For now though, here is one teapot I found with very similar floral designs in the partitions.

Jeremy

https://www.galerienicolasfournery.com/collection/a-chinese-famille-rose-lotus-teapot-yongzheng-period/


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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Posts: 2875
Topic starter 02/09/2022 9:06 pm  

@jbeer2121 Just settled down for the evening… tomorrow I’m heading to an antique show.

Thank you for all the research. The design feels familiar as you’ve stated. I think I have seen some Qianlong pieces with various floral panels, but the porcelain is too close to Kangxi in color/composition, so Yongzheng seems the logical conclusion.

 


   
Adams Asian Art and Sharon P reacted
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

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