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Hello everyone,
I would like to post one more item to ask for your generous opinion. What bothers me most about this bottle is this strangely painted pink bow on the neck, which made me think of being a work from the end of the 20th century. But I wouldn't be able to say much about this object, even assuming it is a copy.
It is 20cm high and 11 in diameter.
Best,
MB
Hi MB,
one would expect that the pink bow was a modern fancy, but these appeared on Qianlong pieces (probably due to European influences). Couldn’t believe my eyes when I first saw one. Your vase however seems 20th century, though I can’t say much about it.
Birgit
The pink ribbon is emblematic of a wedding gift The delicate gilt peach tree and lingzhi carries a meaning of long life. All appears to me to be very much in the taste of the Chinese.
I recently sold a M & P Daoguang crackle (ge) vase that someone decorated with enamel prunes flowers, making the crackle look like branches. I thought the flowers had a Japanese influence, so additions certainly can be influenced or added by outside markets. I just don't think that's the case with your vase.
It looks to me the ribbon has two tones and a pattern, very much like what I seen on Qianlong enamel ware that uses a dark and light pink. The foot seems quite deep and nicely formed. The gilt work shows appropriate wear and is also quite elegant.
There is always a risk when assessing age on the basis of photos without handling the piece, but the quality, size, shape, and mark look good enough to be genuine Qianlong in my opinion.
So, if plan on selling it as a 20th c. piece, let me know. I'd be happy to pay a 20th c. piece price! 😍
Here's a gilt teadust vase sold by Christie's. The addition of the pink bow does not seem an unreasonable addition.
https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-a-fine-and-very-rare-gilt-decorated-teadust-glazed-4603042/?
MB, is the foot rim glazed? Or painted black? It certainly has a unusual shape. I think the ribbon actually looks ok, far less gaudy than some Qianlong examples, I have seen; the colour and the way it is done seems more subdued, less flamboyant.
I have to say that I think the mark, is poorly executed - there are bits missing around the edges. I am not sure about the wear either.
Nice vase, though, but I (in my novice but happy-to-learn way) don't see it as 18th c. 😊
As a newbie I would like to just say that wouldn't something mark and period Qianlong need to have a higher quality of decoration than what is seen here. The design around the bottom doesn't seem crisp enough. And also, I feel that the wear to the gilt throughout the piece seems a bit predictable. Also, something about the damage to the rim seems questionable and I wonder if that is not just an artificial break on a modern fake? Of course, I hope I am wrong. Please let us know if you get it authenticated. John
@johnshoe You bring up some good points, but try not to be too hard on the design. The beauty of the teadust glaze is decoration enough. It might even be possible that the gilt and enamel work was a later addition, or perhaps it is a later piece. But, it's certainly good enough for non-imperial mark & period.
Compare to this vase sold by Christie's:
https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-a-chinese-powder-blue-and-gilt-beaker-5701017/
Regarding the damage, I recommend focusing on the attributes of the vase. Strangely, it reminds me of the break on my mallet vase I bought for $8 in 2016 at an estate sale.
Here it is in Hong Kong on exhibit at Johan's auction... Robert Chang, world renown collector inspecting the vase... and the end result projected during the auction (can't seem to get the pics in order, but you get the idea):
Just because a piece is damaged, doesn't mean it's not valuable!
Merry Christmas!
@greeno107 The aspect I am confused about is the mark and period. the example from Christies is period but not marked. The mark should indicate a very high quality and standard, correct? But perhaps it is mark and period but not imperial, so that is something I am still learning about, to understand the difference between mark and period and imperial mark and period. You bring up an interesting idea that perhaps it could have been decorated later and was simply a plain monochrome initially. But who would do that to a mark a period piece at later date? And doesn't it seem as though the decoration is at least trying to be Qianlong? So, if you had a genuine mark and period Qianlong vase, would you risk adding a decoration at a later time? If that is what occurred, then I would guess that the intent was to fake an imperial piece, with the ribbon and so forth. But to me it seems more reasonable that it is either a more recent example or a genuine Qianlong piece just not imperial rather than something in between. But then again, I know next to nothing. However I am learning a lot from you wonderful folks each and everyday. And thank you for saying where you got your vase. I love that story. Cheers!
I only picked that qianlong period gilt vase to show that there is a range of quality. Yes, M & P are generally higher quality than unmarked period pieces, but the quality displayed in this vase is good enough for me to believe it could be M&P.
At this point, without physically inspecting the vase, we are all left with our opinions.
New Chinese potters are often working from incomplete images or looking at the pieces from a different viewpoint of say a Sotheby's expert. They usually make "mistakes", things which didn't historically happen, because they are missing knowledge about a certain piece. A common sign of this is a piece that is over-decorated. This piece may have a small amount of age but has tacky overglaze enamel and gilding, and also a relatively poor attempt at a qianlong mark. It also leans.
To compare the gilding to the one at Christie's - that gilding is far superior and precise in terms of its design and execution.
Think, simple, elegant, imperial - repeat those words before you go to inspect marked porcelain. Things like spacing and design planning matter. Also, you should all start thinking provenance - that will be mucho necessary in the next few decades. Provenance does not mean the fake Spink stickers that they are now putting on things - it means dated receipts with names and locations and old photos.
This "qianlong teadust" vase is not period. Better copies can had for $1200-2000 that look more period appropriate and are closer to being correct.
It is what it is!
I regret posting the imperial gilt tea-dust vase for comparison.
I do not think this vase is imperial, I did not mean to suggest it was imperial, and I believe that many mark and period pieces fall short of the kind of quality seen in imperial porcelain, so this was a bad example for comparison.
I was just pointing out that to suggest that this small vase is overly decorated, when several examples of teadust vases are covered entirely in gilt decoration (and sometimes enamelled too), can be misleading.
The vase is 8" tall (20 cm), which is small enough for me to enlarge the photo to life seize on my Ipad.
That makes the ribbon around the neck about 1/2 inch (1.25 cm) wide. Looking at the close up, the dark pink drawn over light pink are in the forms of ruyi scepters or clouds or flowers, or something...not just squiggly lines. The photos are back lit, so the vase seems darker than I think it is, and the color of the ribbon perhaps is much brighter than it appears in the photos - just a guess based upon the way the photos appear to have been taken.
The gilt outlines are a bit thick looking in the close ups, but I think that is an optical illusion created by loosing the perspective of the small size of the vase. You have to look at the proportions of the lines while looking at the full vase view, and perhaps it won't look as clunky...just my opinion.
It's also possible someone tried retouching the gilt....a good chance.
I withhold final opinions on age without physically inspecting the piece, but I think at $1200-2000 as suggested, and you're looking to sell, I'm game.
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