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Hi folks!
I won this on a local online auction today, thinking with that foot that it was probably late 19th century. What do you think? The jar is 20cm tall.
Thanks!
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Hi Michael,
Nice jar. I have also collected a couple of Flambé glazed porcelains. At first view the foot looks more 18th c. than 19th c.
The foot of a 19th c. Flambé glazed type would be cut more roughly. Like following foot:
The glaze has more blue and white which happens more to Yongzheng and Qianlong Flambé. But the appearance of how the glaze flows on the jar is not similar to 18th c. It's looks different. And the top rim is also not typical 18th c. or Qing dynasty in general.
So I'm not sure if it's from Qing dynasty. Could be later. Just my opinion. Can you make more photos of details? Thank you.
Xin
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Hi Michael,
Nice jar. I have also collected a couple of Flambé glazed porcelains. At first view the foot looks more 18th c. than 19th c.
The foot of a 19th c. Flambé glazed type would be cut more roughly. Like following foot:
The glaze has more blue and white which happens more to Yongzheng and Qianlong Flambé. But the appearance of how the glaze flows on the jar is not similar to 18th c. It's looks different. And the top rim is also not typical 18th c. or Qing dynasty in general.
So I'm not sure if it's from Qing dynasty. Could be later. Just my opinion. Can you make more photos of details? Thank you.
Xin
Thanks for the opinion, always valued. I don't know how quickly I'll receive the jar, as I have yet to receive an invoice, but I will be happy to take some pictures once I receive it. Are there particular areas that I should focus on, when I take the pictures?
Regards, Michael
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
For example details of top rim, foot rim (between glaze and body), brown glaze on the bottom. Flowing pattern of the glaze. Any signs of usage.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
This jar could be more recent than the C19th - if you look at the base where the hole is, it is very thinly potted and older examples tend to be more robust . Also the way the glaze does not thin or draw back at the mouth/top rim is different from the older qing examples. Just my thoughts.
tam
This jar could be more recent than the C19th - if you look at the base where the hole is, it is very thinly potted and older examples tend to be more robust . Also the way the glaze does not thin or draw back at the mouth/top rim is different from the older qing examples. Just my thoughts.
Well, you could be right. If you look at the picture of the inside bottom, you can see that it was heavily chipped on the inside when they made the hole, so it is a little difficult (IMO) to judge just how thin or thick the bottom actually is. I guess I'll find out when it arrives.
About the glaze around the rim, I did alot of looking at different examples of what (I assume) was genuine flambe pieces a little while ago, and most, as you mentioned have the thinning at the rim, but a few do not. So it does happen, it is just not common.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Hi again,
Vase received yesterday, will supply pictures as soon as weather/light permits it, but here are some initial observations...
The glaze has receded slightly from the rim, not really visible in the auction photos, so since that was mentioned I thought it prudent to mention it.
There are some slight crackle, more in some areas than in others.
The bottom is thick, again the photos from the auction made it look otherwise.
It is glazed inside, in a whitish glaze with darker spots in it (I assume it could be spill from the flambe glaze), there are stress marks in the body on the lower half. Not alot, but they are there.
There is slight chipping on the footrim where the glaze has overflown a bit, also a few spots with slight piling of the glaze.
I've also done a comparison with the two small flambe vases I have in my profile picture (these are mid/late 19thC), and the glaze has about the same brightness/reflection as those two.
Lastly, Xin, you mentioned something about shape of the vase/jar, I've found a similar shaped jar on Truong's site: 
Funny thing, it seems to have the same problem with the shoulders as mine has, one is slighly below the other.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
It sounds very optimistic to me. Could be a genuine piece. Waiting for your pictures.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
It ceases to amaze me that people but something and then ask questions, when it should be the other way around. There is a term for this,however I shall not repeat same here.
Unless of course the purchase price was minimal.
Mark
Hi Mark,
I know I come across as a total novice, and compared to some people here I surely am, but I usually do a fair bit of research before I even contemplate bidding on something. I've studied both flambe and oxblood to a degree that I felt comfortable bidding on this without "mommy and daddy" holding my hand. ?
The price was minimal (less than 50 dollars including shipping), so in case I did make an error, I'm confident that I could get my money back and at the same time I've had a good learning experience.
There are still small provincial auction houses in my neck of the woods with very low internet presence and in some of them you can occassional find good items that have somehow been misrepresented.
Well, that is enough ranting from me, I'll post photos when the weather permits me to shoot outside.
~Michael
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Took a little extra time editing these, this is the first batch.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
Second batch.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
thanks these photos are much better, you can see the coloured glaze pulling back at the lip, and the roughness of the footrim and where the glaze has run over the edge of the foot. I would think these indicate it's C19th rather than C18th but the foot itself is very white and clean , so that suggests , I think , an older piece.
Anyway looks like a bargain. I would be inclined to fill the hole - if it's only 20cm tall I wonder why they drilled it - would have been a small lamp.
tam
Thank you Michael for new input.
Bad news from me, I don’t think it’s old. First, Flambé type has mostly unglazed bottom or bottom with very thin brown glaze (exceptionally with transparent glaze). The brown glaze of your jar is very thick and very opaque which is not normal. Second, the foot of this jar shows the white body, but it’s only white and rough, lack of gloss. And the processing of edge of this jar is not typical for 18th and 19th centuries. It is neither grounded nor cut.
I mentioned in this or other threads that after Mid-Qing this type of glaze is not controlled well, that’s why most of them stuck on the tables in the kiln and the foot must be cut in order to take them out of kiln. Even if this glaze problem the foot is always formed correctly. But look at the foot of your jar, it’s done very bad. Last, the top rim is not the kind I know, should be with less glaze (according to thickness) and little bit more purple, blue or white near neck. You can compare your jar with pictures I uploaded in this thread, you can’t miss the differences.
Well, this is my opinion on this jar.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Hi Xin, thanks for your answer, it was a little disappointing, but not unexpected. There are some flambé examples with thicker brown glaze on the foot, but the glaze on those is still very smooth, not the rough stroked stuff on the foot of my jar, that looks like it was put on by an oversized paintbrush. I've included an example.
On another note, I have two smaller vases in my collection, that have the thicker smooth brown glaze on the foot, I would be happy to have your opinion on those, if you have the time, Xin?
I'll post a picture of one of them below this post.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
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