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I came across this plate and thought it was very fine. Is it an older scene? Potentially early 19th? It looks more detailed than much of the rose medallion I have come across.
Hello Dragonfly:
I think we have agreed in another thread that this pattern should be classfied as Rose Mandarin and not Rose Medallion. According to Peter, the definition of Rose Mandarin is as follows:
Rose Mandarin: Mainly figural in garden, terrace or indoor settings within borders of varying combinations of birds, flowers, fruit, insects and fish.
That aside can anyone explain the rather odd facial features of the figures on this plate? They appear to have white foreheads with white extensions covering their noses. I recall that Birgit and Julia have expertise on figures and facial features in Chinese porcelains. Is this white appearance some feature I have not heard of or is it an example of poor painting?
As to dating I would think probably late 19th century. The border is quite attractively painted but the figures don't look too good to me. However, as we have discussed before the gold highlights in the figures' hair suggest a 19th century dating.
Regards,
Errol
yes I agree this is probably later C19th and I also think the panel and figures are not especially well-done ,
the floor is a bit blurry /sketchy (sometimes on earlier pieces the orange floor is very carefully painted in the two shades).
tam
The figures are fairly in proportion (head to body size) and there is less use of black, eg around the painting - as was discussed in a previous thread. The border is quite busy. I would agree, later 19th c, maybe 1870/1880?
The better proportioned figures and the style of a central painting inside an eloborated border are from the first half of the 19th century. What is really interesting is the lady with the pyramid shaped hair (the one with the blue/green dress). According to Tommy Eklöf these occur only from 1810-1840 with a definite peak in the 1830s.
Birgit
Hi Errol,
the white foreheads and broad noses are a typical features, these faces are exactly as one would expect them to look. What fascinates me is the rare depiction of the old lady with the wrinkles and the greyish hair.
Birgit
Hello Birgit:
To be honest, I have never noted white foreheads and noses before although I have often seen faces that are totally white in Rose Medallion and Rose Mandarin pieces. What does Tommy Eklof have to say about the significance and meaning of the white nose and forehead? Is it a sort of mask? I must say that I don't really like that type of appearance.
Regards,
Errol
You think of the lady on the left? It's not a kind of mask, it's just wrinkles on the forehead and the sides of the face that make her look a bit strange. Old ladies are rather rare on rose mandarin. Usually the faces look like these examples from Tommy's book.
Birgit
Are these books still available anywhere? I'd love to have one!
Dear Birgit:
If you look at the three figures on the right (see photograph below) they all have white foreheads and white covers over their noses. I have seen many examples where the entire face is white, but not just the forehead and nose. I wonder what the significance of this is?
Regards,
Errol
That's just the painting style. Tommy Eklöf has them in a special category q15 that he found in 1810-1840. He desribes them as: "The faces are often coloured with "sun tanning"/colouring on the face where the eye cavitites or lids are specially marked."
Birgit
Thanks Birgit. I need to get round to watching his three YouTube videos that I have saved.
Errol
Wonderful, thank you! I love the idea of a handbook. This one is quite expensive. Is it the best one to have? Any recommendations for which I should buy if I was going to buy one?
Tommy Eklöf's face project is quite unique, so there's no other book than this. It's quite expensive, but for me it paid off because it helped me avoid some fake items and buy others because I could appreciate the age a bit.
Birgit
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