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Hello everyone, thanks again for being so nice and helpful in these forums, and don't hesitate let me know if I'm monopolizing the boards and need to cool it!
I'm a complete beginner and was thinking about making this the first asian antique I've ever bought. It's a bit beat up but I find "European" nature of figures interesting, find their expressions very charming and I love the bats! I've seen bats in some of the catalogs, are they a decorative motif? Do they represent something?
I don't expect to make money from collecting or to become a professional dealer especially because I'm such a neophyte but ideally I won't lose money pursuing this hobby! In that spirit, what you think a safe re-sale price if I were to sell this after I enjoying it for a few years?
Thank you for the help!
-Xander
(I'm unsure of the size but can ask the seller if it will help!)
Late 18th century in my opinion. Being a buyer only I can’t say anything about the resale price. I personally would skip it because of the damage though most people are less sensitive about damaged porcelain than I. To give you an idea of the market price: I bought an undamaged 1750 cup with European subject for £150. And that was from Guest and Gray who are usually expensive (but also excellent).
Birgit
Thanks so much that's really helpful! I'll probably wait to give the honor to something else 😁
It's a nice bowl.
The bat's represents luck and prosperity. Has a written Qianlong mark 1736-1795
I agree with @shinigami on the dating or thereabouts. So either late Qianlong period through to Jiaqing period 1796-1820. As it appears to be heavily potted.
The hairline and chip effects the value a lot. Still if you like it and you can buy it for about $200 usd or less then I think it would be a excellent buy. But these types of wares are not in my normal area so I may be off on my estimation. Perhaps wait for others to respond.
Here is a similar one on offer via sothebys buy it now. But with a traditional scene and better decorated imo. Its got two hairline cracks and was sold for $2800 usd. Described as mid 19th century. The reason I am showing you this is that this one is also heavily potted.
Mark
Ah I see I see, heavily potted meaning that the porcelain walls are pretty thick and opaque right? What's that indicative of anything specific period/value wise? It's kind of different with Chinese porcelains where the translucence of the porcelain isn't considered something important right?
@imperialfinegems The Sothebys one was probably Xiangfeng, that’s why it was so expensive. Alexander‘s bowl looked Xianfeng to me too at first glance but the European subject wasn’t used then anymore.
Birgit
Interesting bowl, the bats with the European (dutch?) couple are interesting but I have seen deer although that seemed to fit in with the scene better. The bats are quite distinctive, perhaps they could be used for dating.
I would have said this was 19th c or later, for various reasons, but it is very hard to find comparisons. Could it be a fake? Not saying it is, it has to fit somewhere but there seem to be obstacles to placing it, but that makes it interesting to learn from.
Here are a pair of Qianlong m&p which show differences in style. As well as the potting, the painting is also more finely done.
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Julia, you’re probably right, it may be a copy. Though they managed to do the faces well, that misled me in the beginning. A reign mark on an export piece is unusual. Several factors don’t go together in that bowl.
Birgit
I thought the faces were ok too, but wasn't sure about the hands. Also, you are right about the mark; I merely thought it looked odd with the blobs in places where you might not expect them.
Hi Alexander -
I will only add that the six character Qianlong reign mark is especially badly written and spaced, this alone would discounts an 18th century attribution ...
Personally, I think 19th century or latter but not really my area of interest, so I will defer to others far greater knowledge/comments posted regarding a possible dating attribution ...
Stuart
Actually when I first viewed it I was thinking republican. Because of the mark, heavily potted and design. But I don't recall seeing one like this before from republican period.
But these western inspired pieces can be tricky.
I dont think it's a recent copy.
Mark
Thanks for the help everyone! Is the book of faces a specific book with images? Sounds interesting!
Derar all, it is a clear fake. They try to copy the European faces seen on Qianlong bowls, but hey, look at those flowers and leaves! The pose of the man, ridiculous.
Dear Alexander, you will not be helped by only buying the book. You must before look at many, really many pieces, and recognize the styles.
Regards,
Giovanni
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