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Dating this blue and white bottle vase

 
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
Topic starter 21/11/2021 8:25 pm  

This vase looks to have some age. The neck is rather thinly potted and I've tried to get angles in the photos that shows that. The vase is quite light when picked up, so I think that is a good sign as well. It's about 13 inches tall. The art is well done, nice precise drawing, and I think it flows well, not too stiff anyway. The white has a little creaminess in the tone, like older pieces tend to have. I'm thinking it could be a late 19th export piece, but I'd like others opinions. There is no damage that I can see, so I'm happy about that. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Cheers!  John

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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
21/11/2021 8:57 pm  
  1. Looks modern to me. Is that glaze contraction on the lip.

   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
Topic starter 21/11/2021 9:21 pm  

@lotusblack No, that is just old grime I have yet to clean it. It's not new. If is was new it would have a nice Qianlong mark on it, like all the other new ones do. At any rate, it's way too light to be new. 

This post was modified 4 years ago by johnshoe

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
21/11/2021 9:33 pm  

The bottom boarder looks stenciled. But I could be wrong.


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
Topic starter 21/11/2021 9:42 pm  

@lotusblack I don't believe it is stenciled. At first glance I suspected that as well, but after looking closely, it appears very precisely hand painted. 


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
Topic starter 23/11/2021 9:30 am  

@lotusblack Here it is all cleaned up and looking good!

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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
23/11/2021 9:46 am  

@johnshoe It looks hand painted, but I think this is a 20th c. vase... perhaps 1970's.

However, it could be that your photos are making me think the vase is newer than it really is.  The issue with your photos is that they are soft... in otherwords, they're enough out of focus that when I zoom in on your photos, rather than seeing the brush strokes, bubbles, and other fine details that I look for, I only see blurryness.

The blurriness could be from the use of more modern techniques, or your just not getting enough light, so your phone camera is not taking a clear enough shot.

Put it in direct sunlight, take photos from about 8" away... don't worry about reflection...I can see around that kind of thing.


   
Sharon P reacted
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
23/11/2021 10:33 am  

I’m going to agree with Tim later 20th century I have looked at the first images closely and still believe it is stenciled. I can clearly see the stenciled boarders. It’s like a painted lithograph the picture is printed than hand painted over.

404467D1 F767 4AAA A2A9 E6F0F57FFA6A

 

This post was modified 4 years ago by Brian Crowe

   
Greeno107 and Sharon P reacted
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
23/11/2021 11:03 am  

Here is what I believe is a good 19th century early 20th century comparisons.

F0D99CC7 AE35 40AA 9BBA 4726FDA79AAF
1975E558 833D 4E47 A301 9DB7E6689878
E6D90E5C ECF6 4E36 A03C 91AF02D1FB9D

 


   
Greeno107 and Sharon P reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
Topic starter 23/11/2021 12:44 pm  

@greeno107 These pics were definitely not taken in good light. I will get some better pictures uploaded later then see what people think. I'm looking forward to learning more about it and distinguishing between 19th and 20th C pieces, etc, which for me is still tricky in some cases. 


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
23/11/2021 2:26 pm  

@johnshoe I totally get it. It wasn’t until I visited the San Francisco Chinese museum and same day Chinatown that I started to understand the art form just a little bit. It’s an Amazing Museum but very educational.


   
Greeno107, William Huvar, Sharon P and 1 people reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4453
Topic starter 26/11/2021 9:55 pm  

@greeno107 Here are some pictures outside in the daylight.

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Greeno107 reacted
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4241
26/11/2021 10:57 pm  

It’s a nice vase looks well made. Late 20th century.


   
Greeno107, chris71, Julia and 1 people reacted
ReplyQuote
Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
27/11/2021 11:13 am  

@johnshoe Much better photos!

From a purely technical perspective, there is nothing about the foot rim,  paste, underglaze blue, form, design, or even the firing (based upon the bubbles in the slip) that would exclude it from being late Qing.

However, the degree of detail to the overall design is a bit lacking. It’s subtle, but it’s enough that I would not believe the vase was older than 1970 as Brian has pointed to.

The softness of the line work, and the lack of line work are the two main aspects of the design that point to a later date of creation.

 


   
Sharon P reacted
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
27/11/2021 11:23 am  

@johnshoe I’m staring at your curious vase… that deep foot sure looks 19th c. I think we’re being too harsh about the design’s simplicity. 

I’ve changed my mind… late 19th c.


   
Sharon P reacted
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