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Hi All,
I have a framed piece of Chinese silk, I was hoping someone here is knowledgeable as to the age of the piece. I recently had been going through some PDFs produced by the Palace Museum on Chinese Suzhou silk embroidery (not on robes but as imitating painting) and it got my mind going as to what exactly mine was and how old it was as I noticed (from the PDFs) very similar techniques, for example the pine tree needles (songzhen xiu). The frame itself is from 1930-40's as it has a now defunct business sticker on the back dating it to their framing department at that time so I know it is at least from the 1930-40. Was it something new at the time someone picked up on their trip to China and decided to have it framed? I feel as though it should be wider. Is it embroidery mimicking painting and it should be like a scroll painting? I am afraid to unframe it because these things you cannot get back in once you've taken it apart so I thought I would ask someone here who is knowledgeable with silks for their input. Thank you! Oh and the piece is 42"H x 12" W framed.
D.
@lotusblack It could be a possibility, do you have an example? I cannot seem to even find a similar Japanese silk embroidery panel that uses the same techniques as my panel. This one HERE is the closest in type but you can see the subject matter (pine tree) is similar but embroidery style/execution is different.
Now there are Chinese examples I can find of these techniques, if you look at this example HERE of a 100 birds scroll, you can see that the peonies are very very similar (picture below) and the pine the same elongated strand crossing from one side to the other of the trunk (although much much finer in the 100 bird scroll) is similar. Also in this example HERE at the MET depicting the same type of shading technique used on the rocks as is used on my pine tree (close up below). The MET example is also an exposed background example also with painterly style renditioning of the subject matter.
**Shrug** I don't know, silks are not really my area it just piqued my interested after reading the Palace Museum article that the techniques used on Chinese embroidery matched mine. I appreciate everyone's opinion since honestly, it isn't easy sometimes distinguishing between the cultural overlap.
@julia I know the Ebay seller is calling that Japanese but that embroidery work is Chinese, these silk panels with phrases embroidered on are from Suzhou. The embroidered phrase is even in Chinese characters, one says 升东日旭 which is something like Sunrise in the East and the other 锦色婵煌 something like Brilliant beautiful embroidery. However, I definitely see the similarities with regards to the technique in your example.
I am sorry, I clearly did not take enough notice of what you said in your first post, I was more responding to Brian's statement and your subsequent one. I see now there were links in that. I wish they appeared in a bolder font as I can never see them on mobile devices. They just don't stand out enough.
I did see a couple of similar pieces identified as Japanese, but maybe that was part of a common problem, the way one seller gets something wrong and other sellers unaware it is misidentified, identify their item the same way.
HERE is a silk panel with a similar technique used for the pine needles (although clearly older than my example) with a similar theme, pine tree with some wrapping vine, rock, grass, etc. HERE is another example I found with a very similar tree trunk shading technique, again similar theme of pine tree with winding vine (anyone know what that is called?), rock, sparse grass shoots, peonies. Now I have a feeling that this panel was probably part of a much larger piece, just one small slice of a larger picture like this painted example HERE . It has always seemed "incomplete" in a way, like I am expecting to see more but its cut off and I thought maybe the entire thing is actually wrapped around the backboard but after seeing that examples of these panels were originally in pieces like this I doubt there's anymore hiding. I don't know, what do you guys think?
I tried looking for Japanese examples I found this one HERE however the technique is not the same, and the theme is different. HERE is another one which has some similarities but nothing like the Chinese examples. I also wanted to include this one HERE / HERE (close up) because its honestly quite beautiful so I thought I'd include it.
@julia I use the forum through the website, thank you for pointing out that the links are not clear on mobile, I will make them bold in the future. It is the theme and the stitching techniques that make me believe its Chinese. Chinese combine things in their art (painting, carvings etc) that have some sort of double meaning (rebus) or symbolic meaning, whereas the Japanese tend to use art to convey a ... more "zen" beauty-in-simplicity type of structure (if that makes sense).
Those links stand out much better!
Interestingly, to me your piece looks more like what you have described as Japanese "beauty in simplicity" but I don't doubt you when you say it is Chinese. The pieces you have found are lovely.
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