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Thanks Mark! I will be staring at this piece every day for a while I think. Whatever its called, I like it 😀 Maybe George will add to the information Giovanni has provided, if he sees the thread. Its so much fun to find something really good!
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Todd now you have a fine piece to study, and measure all others henceforth against!
Hi Todd -
So pleased it was still there and you were able to bye!!😊...
Looks even better now its been cleaned - a really nice piece ...
The ware it displayed throughout is an object lesson in itself!😉...
Congratulations on acquiring ...
Stuart
@imperialfinegems @clayandbrush
Dear Mark and Giovanni -
A question:-
If the calligraphy contains a date ‘wu zi’, 1888, does this imply the piece may be late Qing, Guangxu period and not Republic?! ...
Or is the inclusion of this date within the inscription merely a ‘homage’ to an early period, and the piece is indeed Republic?! ...
Just curious to know what your thoughts are on this ...
As with Todd, I hope that George@gfhandel sees this thread and can add some more information regarding the inscription and base mark ...
Regards,
Stuart
Dear Stuart,
unless it is a fake, which is not the case here, the date written on this particular type of ware, which were painted by artists, are reliable.
The oldest qianjiang wares are dated about 1880, so this one bought by Tod is of the earlier period.
Regards,
Giovanni
The stem-branch calendar operates on a 60 year cycle. So, wu zi can be 1888 or 1948.
The gold rim, less delicate design, and the brighter colored enamels all point to the later date.
This assumes that the date is actually wu zi. I struggle reading these hand written marks, and even my Chinese friends make mistakes reading them.
The two character date is not clearly written, i.e. both the wu and zi have a few extra strokes leading me to believe they could have another meaning such as a location. (I could be wrong). I have seen many of these over many years so my opinion is that this is more like to be early Republic ca. 1912-1920.
George
If someone can decipher the calligraphy and more importantly the read mark on the base we maybe able to determine whether it's possibly 1888 or 1948.
I have seen this base mark before but I just can't remember it. It's either a artists read mark or other. My feeling was that the said item was republic period. However I can't completely rule out a slightly earlier date.
Generally speaking all marked porcelain bearing dates from the guangxu period through to the end of the republican period are correctly dated for the time of production. It was common practice to put dates along with the makers name/short story/poem etc.
Assuming of course that they are by the artist and not later attributes. Later attributes often used both the artists name and a earlier place and time of reference on the items. This is not the case with this item. It's 100% genuine.
Mark
Hi George,
I see we posted at the same time. The plot thickens with this item.
Any clues as to the base mark?
I have emailed a couple of friends. One being a professor. I will let you all know the results.
Mark
I recognize the two vertical characters third line from the left: “Tong Hua” or “Flowering Paulownia.” The Mark at bottom also reads as “Tong Hua” or “Flowering Paulownia” (Balsa Wood Tree). As far as dating I believe this is early Republic based on style.
George
Dear all,
I defer to George because I do not know Chinese language, although many native Chinese speakers are not able to read this type of cursive scripting.
Anyway, if George is right and the two characters are not meaning wu zi, (a bit strange because the place of the characters is that where usually is the date) this vase can’t, in any way, be newer than about 1920. It is absolutely impossible that it is 1948, a time where qianjiang ware was no more made since no less than 20 years.
Dear Greeno, try to find any item of this style, made in 1948. Simply doesn’t exist, except of course fakes. This is not a fake, it is a genuine qianjiang vase and the painting style here, although not unique, should be recognized by experts like Mr. Koh.
Regards,
Giovanni
@clayandbrush I agree...I don't think qianjiang was produced in 1948, at least not in the manner originally intended. I had thought the date was misread, which was the reason for my 2nd post questioning the translation of the date. I am not a native reader and alwys struggle with the hand written dates.
I do like qianjiang works and know enough to be dangerous, and consequently I was not in agreement with others suggestioning that the cylindrical vase/stand was from 1888.
It seems we are now on a better path towards finding the right answer...1920's or there about.
Assessing just the artistry, the famille-style bright enamels reflect the push of economics over the original brush painting - like artistry of early Qianjiang.
Xin from wyssemaria-art kindly responded with the following translation.
Tong hua ju (workshop) eight immortals celebrate together.
Bottom mark : Tong Hua
My other friend Mr Michael Chen stated more or less the same with only one exception being fairies instead of immortals. Interesting!
I shall try and find more information on this artist/workshop.
Mark
The characters “Ba Xian” can be translated either way “Eight Fairies” or “Eight Immortals.”
George
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