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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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Chinese Famille Vert Jar - New or Old?

 
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 tony bonn
(@tonyatl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 219
Topic starter 12/09/2022 1:03 pm  

Another Chinese porcelain which has caught my attention. It is rather large - i recall it being over 12" in height and most likely more. I am characterizing it as famille vert. there is much to commend it, but some things are lacking suggesting that it may be much newer than its dealer would like to believe. 

for example, the robes don't have the detail i would like to see. the red/orange is too monolithic - no shading or subtlety. but there is other very nice detail, and color variations on the robes.

so the stock question is, is it new or old? Because i assumed that it was new, i did not take a whole lot of technical views. on the other hand, i do like it.

chinese jar 3
chinese jar 2
chinese jar 1

 


   
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
12/09/2022 1:22 pm  

I can't really comment too much, but first thing that stands out to me its a foot that choppy on what looks like a Shunzhi period jar, throws up a red flag for me.

Jeremy


   
Ming1449, Julia, Shinigami and 1 people reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4454
12/09/2022 2:29 pm  

This one looks fairly recent to me, late 20th at oldest I suspect. 


   
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 Ming1449
(@ming1449)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2710
12/09/2022 4:46 pm  

@tonyatl 

Hi Tony - 

Concur with Jeremy and Johnshoe ...

The overall painting style, individual motif execution, enamel tones, and base trimming/finishing are all wrong ...

Base upon known examples from Shunzhi/early Kangxi periods but very far from such, late 20th century - at best ...

Stuart 


   
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 tony bonn
(@tonyatl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 219
Topic starter 12/09/2022 5:15 pm  
Posted by: @ming1449

@tonyatl 

Hi Tony - 

Concur with Jeremy and Johnshoe ...

The overall painting style, individual motif execution, enamel tones, and base trimming/finishing are all wrong ...

Base upon known examples from Shunzhi/early Kangxi periods but very far from such, late 20th century - at best ...

Stuart 

nothing too surprising here. thanks. the dealer gave it a dynastic age - can't remember if ming or not. if it had even a late qing dating it would have been compelling - regardless of what it was trying to emulate. i don't see how she stays in business.


   
Sharon P reacted
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 tony bonn
(@tonyatl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 219
Topic starter 12/09/2022 8:58 pm  

I finally found out where the dealer is getting her wares - Eden Auction Galleries which Peter's auctioneer report card grades as F-.  In fact one of them bears its sticker. What a joke. This almost confirms the blue and white yen yen vase i posted as being a total fake too. On the other hand, it was well done - just brand new.

This post was modified 3 years ago by tony bonn

   
Adams Asian Art, Ming1449, Julia and 3 people reacted
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4454
12/09/2022 9:13 pm  

@tonyatl oh no, that's too bad. But at least now you know. Peter has done a few videos about them.


   
Julia and Sharon P reacted
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 tony bonn
(@tonyatl)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 219
Topic starter 12/09/2022 11:18 pm  
Posted by: @tonyatl

Another Chinese porcelain which has caught my attention. It is rather large - i recall it being over 12" in height and most likely more. I am characterizing it as famille vert. there is much to commend it, but some things are lacking suggesting that it may be much newer than its dealer would like to believe. 

for example, the robes don't have the detail i would like to see. the red/orange is too monolithic - no shading or subtlety. but there is other very nice detail, and color variations on the robes.

so the stock question is, is it new or old? Because i assumed that it was new, i did not take a whole lot of technical views. on the other hand, i do like it.

 

i was completely mistaken about the monolithic coloring of the robes. this christies example shows just exactly that on the period jar it sold. A WUCAI BALUSTER JAR AND COVER (christies.com)

the point is that my assumptions about detail were quite wrong for this era. the shading is quite minimal on the clothing. so although i still agree that the vase is "new", other reasons must be found for damning it.

also the jar is not Famille Verte - it is Wucai style. I was thinking the former because i thought the jar was emulating a later period style.

This post was modified 3 years ago by tony bonn

   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4869
13/09/2022 1:28 am  

The boys faces have a Tongzhi/Guangxu look which is often found on fakes because they are the easiest to paint. But they all look the same. Same hairstyle, same facial expression. You wouldn’t find that on a quality late Qing piece.

Birgit


   
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Topics and categories on  The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes. 

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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube.  Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings. 

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