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This is my first Chinese furniture purchase so I hope I made a good choice. It seemed to have legitimate age and I feel it is good quality. My limited understanding of woodgrain leads me to think it could be a type of elm, and it seems to have been lacquered and then much of that has worn off in the used areas of the seat, arms, and foot rest. The carved elements seem tasteful, elegant, and are smoothly done. It is very solidly built, with no signs of weakness, and is quite nice to sit in. I am hoping to learn more about it from others knowledge and insights. Cheers! John
Hi John!
This is a lacquered elm wood chair, possibly old, but these chairs, especially as a single, don’t carry much value….they’re quite common.
When buying Chinese furniture, generally avoid lacquered wood and wood with wide grain if you’re looking for collectible pieces.
@johnshoe Do you see the Sotheby’s chairs have a mat seat an are essentially undecorated? Most likely they are older than 19th c. (Probably 17-18th c). Plus, as a pair the value is triple or more for a single chair.
Also, keep in mind that Sotheby’s clients will often pay more for decorative pieces than normal folks like us.
@greeno107 The color of the wood where the lacquer is worn off is very similar to the color on mine. It is that beautiful golden color. I like that look. What's the deal with the mat seat versus the wood seat - does it relate to age and/or quality?
@johnshoe Elm wood has been used for hundreds of years, so yes, your chair is comprised of the same material. There is no measurable difference in the quality of the wood of your chair and the Sotheby’s chairs… but that’s because Elm wood has very low value (generally).
Yes, the mat seats generally suggests an older age of 18th c. or earlier, but more recent versions do exist.
Elm can be exceptionally beautiful! I have an large 18th c. table that I personally think rivals most huanghuali in appearance, but at a fraction of the cost.
@greeno107 Also, did this type of chair exist in Ming or is it just a Qing design?
Just to be clear… the difference in value is related to age, being sold as a pair, and selling at a prestigious auction house to affluent clients.
@greeno107 I find it odd that beautiful pieces would be overlooked just because of the type of wood. I understand enough to see that is how it is, but it does strike me as being a bit superficial of collectors. I'm pleased to hear your appreciation for the beauty of your table. to my subjective eyes, if something was well made, has stood the test of some time, is artful, elegant, interesting, beautiful, etc, then to me the type of wood is more of a curiosity than an end all be all to determining value. But alas, I've always been one to challenge and question convention, a trait that feels good in my soul but typically doesn't do much for my bank account. At any rate, I would enjoy seeing your well loved table if you care to share a photo or two.
@johnshoe I understand why you feel this way, but I assure you that all genuine huanghuali and zitan wood furniture was made with the highest level of craftsmanship. As I often say… if the piece is not well constructed and/or beautifully carved, then it’s not huanghuali nor zitan.
Yes, there are fine pieces of furniture made from lesser valuable woods, and they are sometimes quite valuable. However, for elm pieces to be valuable need to be quite special in design and/or age.
I can post a pic tomorrow…it’s at my building.
Sorry, John….just giving you my honest opinion. Sorry if I came off overly critical.
@greeno107 you aren't being overly critical, just stating the way it is. It's good education for me. But I'm just giving my two cents, which is literally worth about that much to the huali/zitan lovers! At any rate, this chair of mine is very well made and has some age so I'm happy with it. I intended to use it as a study piece, so I am going to isolate on some aspects of it and pick your brains to learn more about Chinese furniture construction and dating, etc.
@greeno107 The first thing I would like to learn more about relates to the seat. You said that the mat seat can be indicative of older chairs. Does this mean that older chairs always have mat seats, or do they sometimes have wooden seats too? And if the older ones also can have wooden seats, does a mat seat on an older chair typically suggest a higher quality than one with a wooden seat?
@johnshoe older chairs of good quality always have mat seats, unless the matting has been removed.
Some other considerations…
Huanghuali & zitan from late Ming to early Qing is rarely carved, perhaps just a delicate beadwork design on the apron.
Zitan from the mid Qing onward is generally heavily carved because the wood accepts intricate carving without racking.
All traditional Chinese furniture abide by strict rules regarding form, size, wood type, and design. Any variation should raise a red flag as to its authenticity, or suggests later modification. Books on Classical Chinese furniture provide these measurements and design types.
The good news is that genuine Chinese furniture is faked/copied far less than porcelains. The bad news is that it is its own extensive area of study.
Think about what you wrote about what impressed you about the chair… the carving and form…that’s a very good start because that is the first thing you should be looking at when evaluating Chinese furniture. However, you need to be more familiar with the forms and decor, and elevate your understanding of what ‘good quality’ looks like.
For example, the chipped and repainted lacquer surface is not good, and the carving is shallow and a bit sloppy. There’s no way that you would know that without having looked at hundreds of examples and studied the carving, but now that you know, you’ll do better on your next purchase.
Once you’re more familiar with aspects of quality, then you can take in to consideration the type of wood. Too often, collectors put the cart before the horse, and it leads them to misidentifying the piece.
I was looking at the dimensions of others, like these, and mine is close to them, just about 1.75 inches shorter, but almost exact for the width and depth. https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2015/important-chinese-art-n09477/lot.280.html
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