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I'm not sure if it's authentic or not but I assume it most likely dates to the Ming dynasty. I've never seen anything like it before. I'm not even sure what kind of animal it's suppose to depict.
I know nothing about bronzes but agree with Mark. If authentic the gold would be rubbed off in protruding or often touched places. Here it looks unconvincing.
Birgit
Stepping in again and have to partially disagree. It is so unusual and would be difficult to produce multiple copies. For that reason I would agree that it is not Ming, however it does have some age (I Don't believe it is new). Depending on where you found this Avatar, and what the price is for sale, and the size if you know it, if it is reasonably priced, I would take a crack at it. Have never seen a gilt bronze censer such as this, so to me it would make a nice display item.
George
Height is 30 cm, weight is 5 kilo. The price is very reasonable but shipping might be expensive, not to mention import taxes. I think I might have found a somewhat similar censer for comparison at Ben Janssens site. As you can see it is dated to the 18th - 19th century and there is a reference for two comparable pieces at British Museum which I'll see if I can find on their site later. I' m still not sure about what period this one would date to but at least I now know that the animal is probably a lion.
http://www.benjanssens.com/portfolio/039-bronze-incense-burner-form-lion-like-mythical-animal/
This one is also available at the same place. 25 cm across but strangely even higher priced. It is probably also function as a censer since it can be opened.
Patterns on bronzes from Ming and Qing period are all carved. All patterns on this big bronze beast are not right.
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Xin, do you think the two censers are possibly fakes? And can you please explain more accurately in which way some of the patterns are not correct?
I've found a couple more examples for comparison. A gilt one inlaid with stones at Freeman's dated to the 18th - 19th century and sold for $26,000. Very nice! https://auctions.freemansauction.com/auction-lot-detail/A%2DChinese%2Dembellished%2Dbronze%2DBuddhist%2Dlion%2Dcenser%2Dand%2Dcover%2C/1673++++++44+/+1037274 And the one at Sotheby's that also has the cub with a budding lotus blossom at top. Dated to late Ming and sold for HKD 350,000. Interesting the animal is here described as a qilin and not a lion. https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2014/later-chinese-bronzes-from-the-collection-of-ulrich-hausmann-hk0558/lot.3357.html
And regarding the smaller censer in the form of two buddhist lions playing I've encountered a couple of fake examles. One in iron and one in gilt bronze. But I also found this one at 'Empire Auction House' dated to the 14th -. 16th century. But since I know nothing about the auction I can not say if that dating reliable or not. I would have thought it was later than that. https://www.artfoxlive.com/product/1749976.html
I think these two are reproductions. The patterns on them are not carved by old hand tools. They look like pressed or carved by mechanical tools. All lines have same depth and breadth, they are too regular and two dimensional.
See attached pictures, the carved lines/pattern are more three dimensional, they have different thickness and depth. Besides that the patina is also not correct, it's more dirt than patina. The rest of the gilt is definitly not gold, it's kind of something aluminium alloy.
The one from freeman's on the left and the buddha figure from Qianlong period on the right in my collection show the right processing traces of traditional craftmanship. Many bronze objects from Ming dynasty are carved very roughly, because they are often covered with lacquer paint and gilt. So that fine patterns can not be seen after that. Only pieces without lacquer but gold gilt will be carved finely.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
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And regarding the smaller censer in the form of two buddhist lions playing I've encountered a couple of fake examles. One in iron and one in gilt bronze. But I also found this one at 'Empire Auction House' dated to the 14th -. 16th century. But since I know nothing about the auction I can not say if that dating reliable or not. I would have thought it was later than that. https://www.artfoxlive.com/product/1749976.html
This one is also a reproduction.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
When I look at a Ming or very early Qing bronze, I look first at the casting quality. Those from this period are very finely cast. Their surface is free of imperfections. None of the dimples, or surface imperfections you see on more recent examples.
These were made by master craftsmen, who spent their lives making bronzes. Imagine how good you would be at something if you did it for 10-20-30-40 years. One at a time using the lost wax method.
This is very different that a mass production shop that uses sweatshop type methods to churn out the maxium number of pieces - the faster and cheaper the better.
Now imagine yourself comparing the work of a lifetime craftsman, with a sweatshop - there will be differences that jump out at you.
For me, the first place I look is the quality of the casting - it the quality of a flat spot of the bronze surface. Its no different today, comparing modern European bronzes, with those of a few hundred years ago.
If the surface is not very finely cast, then it wasn't make by a craftsman, when means it probably isn't that old.
Next comes the patina. Every piece, has a place that you naturally place your hands when you pick it up. These are not balls, where your hands can go anywhere - they are shaped objects - they get picked up one way, much more than any other. Over the centuries, that place where you hand naturally goes to, will have a different patina than the rest. If its not there, its not been handled that much.
Thank you, Xin! You may be right. I don't know, I can not say. But I had already more or less decided not to buy the censer, not because I thought it was fake, but simply because I have to make priorities. That damn corona-virus have also messed up things for me.
And also thanks to Avionsunantiques for sharing experiences and advice. As usual the frustrating thing is that I can not get to handle those pieces. I'm used to buying online though but my own knowledge and experience regarding bronze is very limited unfortunately.
I just started a new topic about a late Ming lacquer cabinet that is also available at the same place. As far as I can see, it's likely authentic but since I haven't got the necessary experience there might be something I've missed. A comparable cabinet was offered through one of the majors, dated to the late Ming and with a high estimate at $15,000 if I recall, but left unsold. This might give us a clue regarding authenticity of the two bronze censers in this thread. There are also a couple of longquan vases available that to my eye look like period pieces, but well hidden in the usual mud of later copies and modern replica as it is so common with online dealer. I've been wanting to branch into bronze and lacquer for a while, but last time I tried got my fingers burned.
Here's the link to the thread with the cabinet: https://bidamount.com/the-bidamount-asian-art-forum/main-forum/qiangjin-lacquer-cabinet-probably-late-ming-dynasty#post-29519
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