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Hi! I know this is considered provincial ware, but I am still trying to understand how to date it. Are either of these pieces old? How can you tell either way?
Hi dragonfly,
we have talked about these jars several times here in the forum. They are typical 19th century kitchen Qing, some are still made today as Tam said. The problem is they often look older than they really are because of wear and their rustic production.
Birgit
Thank you! How do you tell they are 19th century as opposed to modern reproduction?
Hi,
I’m learning too, so I’ll tell you what struck me as a novice.
The footrim seems to be V-shaped which, I believe,
started appearing in the early 18th century,
add to that the fritting and pinholes to the foot
it moves to the mid-19th century. The colour of
the footrim can help but yours is discoloured but
looks quite white rather than buff or straw coloured
which suggests a later date too.
The footrim shouldn’t be used as the sole determinant and
other things like the style, pattern colour should be used to
confirm the attribution.
As I say, I’m a complete novice so someone is
likely to come along and tell me I’m wrong!
But I thought an insight into a thought procesd
may help!
Nic
Yes, and the painting quality is a bit higher than later, where they often use printed elements.
Birgit
there are differences of opinion here on the forum about these jars, I see them a lot in junk shops here in china , they can be bought for about £10 depending on size, and I think of them as new, because there are so many , and cheap and unconsidered, even though they are rough, and have firing flaws etc etc.
More and more provincial wares are appearing in the west and they are hard to date , but if you see many it's a good sign they are all recent. A certain dealer in England used to have these in his window display at outrageous prices , £100 plus, when they are really not worth much.
tam
Tam is right, there are too many on the market to be all 19th century. But even if you find a nice old one they have purely decorative value and can’t be considered as an investment.
Birgit
I agree with all of you but I like the look and would like to have some that are actually old. I can't seem to find them for inexpensive prices. Any idea who is selling them for cheap?
If these are cheap and you like them, buy them. It depends what your goal is as a collector in the long run. Mine is just to own some genuine pieces that I like. I’m not at the stage where Ihave the knowledge to confidently spend £2000 on something in the hope that its worth £10000 in 10 years time.
The only possible way novices like us could safely buy a high-end piece is to buy something that’s in the newsletter, and I say to myself every week that I’m going to do that. But if I decide to go to £500, the item sells for £1000. And if I decide to go to £1000 it goes for £1800. Then I turn to the buy it now, and then I’m afraid that the pieces I like are too expensive, which is confirmed by the fact that they haven’t been snapped up by others weeks after appearing in the newsletter.
So, as I see it, the choices us beginners have are: buy nothing, buy small (and potentially make small losses) or buy big (and potentially make big losses).
So if you like them, buy them, and thanks to everyone here you’ll know exactly what you’re buying. But if you want something ‘special’, best to save your money and put it towards something more collectible?
There are no rules, and as long as you go into any purchase with your eyes open, there won’t be any nasty surprises further down the line when you may have difficulty reselling them.
Nic
Hello All.
It might just be me but the trouble with Porcelain is the it is not at all adapted to buying online. It just isn't. You must feel a piece. Look hard. Your eyes and nose have so much more potential than pictures and yet we buy and buy online without a single worry about authenticity. 100% feedback and some good comments from everyone here about how nice the seller is and how well they know him / her. "Fredrick", surely must have just had too many auctions on and has made a mistake. By the way, a mistake that would have cost the buyer 150 too much, but of course nobody would have been around to pick up the mess whence said purchase took place. Buying online is not to be recommended period! Best wishes All
Oh and by the way. I would have put these at 20th century. There are far too many rust spots and the non glazed areas look false..Maybe not yesterday but 20thC.
I live in Spain. An antique shop in the north of the country that I visited recently had a pair of these, almost identical to OP's picture. When I inquired, the old lady that ran the place had the bloody nerve to ask €2,200 for the pair. I thought she was joking, I laughed; but no, she meant it.
Yes , I feel almost all of these are new but because they are rustic and spotted with iron and bubble flaws people assume they must be old . Here is a photo I took in a shop at my local 'curio market' here in China - I live in the same province as Jingdezhen so there is lots of pottery and porcelain available , but most pieces are very recent .
The seller was asking 200 rmb (about £25) for the ones on the right, top row, 300RMB for the slightly bigger ones underneath, 150RMB for the smaller one on the right shelf, and different prices for the ones on the left: 200-1000 RMB (one he said was qing era).
This being China , all prices are negotiable downwards .....
tam
Tam and Birgit are right. 19th C.
About the price Tam is totally right. That's the price level in China for this kind of usual thing. There are too many.
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