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Here's some better shots of the blue cloisonne vase out in the sun. Quite a difference from the pictures I posted before. Hopefully the details and quality come across much better now. I still am not sure how to assess, date, value it. All thoughts are welcomed. Cheers! John
Hi,
It may have been better to have used your previous topic, so we can remind ourselves of various things. Was there a photo of the dragon's face? Maybe there is in these photos. It is hard to tell.
Personally, this style of cloisonné, if it can be called that, doesn't really appeal to me. It is hard to see the decoration, it is overly busy but the shape is pleasing and the blue looks nice in the sun.
I can't remember what was said last time, but at a guess I would say 20th c not sure when. It can be very difficult not holding things and seeing it up close, so don't hold me to that. It might help to see a good shot of the dragon's head.
As you are wanting a value, I am guessing you bought this to sell on? I think a clear picture of the dragon would help you in that as dragons are popular. If you picked it up cheaply, you could just add in a profit and start bidding on ebay at that bottom line?
If you think it is high quality and may have a greater value than say, ebay, might achieve, then I would send Peter some very sharp photos so that he can give you an accurate idea.
Sorry, but I am nothing like good enough to judge much from these pictures but maybe someone else can help.
Julia
@julia In other words, even when I take better pictures they're still bad. My apologies. I will see if I can have another go at it. But then maybe I will see what Peter has to say also because I am curious if the piece has some potential. It's just got such a high amount of detail. i know what you mean about finding the style a bit hard to appreciate, however I will say that when you look at it up close it is impressive, even though at a distance the detail just gets washed out.
I agree that the pictures are not great, too much bright sunlight, but I still think this is an early C20th export tourist piece, this monochrome cobalt blue is not typically found on earlier cloisonne, (and I am not sure whether monochrome cloisonne was produced at all before the end of the C19th ?) and the decoration , although detailed is not very skilled - too much repetition in the shape of the clouds, leaves, and dragon scales.
But might be good to ask Peter for his view.
tam
John, I tried not to say that. 😆
Please let us know what Peter says.
The only other thing that occurred to me, was that this reminds me of the powder blue and gilt decorated porcelain bowls, etc especially the later examples which looked rather hectic. That was why I wanted to see the way the dragon was done in case there was a clue there.
I imagine that might be what this is copying, which may well tie in with what Tam says about it possibly being an early 20th c tourist item.
By tourist item you guys mean Imperial tourists, right? 😀
@julia Don't worry, I already know I take the worst pictures in the West. I justify it by telling myself that I am keeping all of you guys honest and challenging your skills of assessment by making you look through the bad pictures to see into the soul of the object. But the truth is that I'm just being a lazy bum. However, for now I don't mind being the bad picture guy. There's worse things I could be, that's for sure.
Here's more bad pictures, this time up close of one of the dragons from head to tail:
Thanks, John, I can see it now. For me, that appears to confirm the period Tam suggested. It could be later, I find cloisonné quite difficult.
Dragons are interesting, not just counting toes and the way the scales are done, but their facial expressions and the horns and things sticking out of them. Yours, for example, seems to have a slight unicorn look, you don't always see that so pronounced but maybe more so in later ones dated to 20th c?
Things like that make me wonder if we are seeing a lack of understanding of what the worker is describing with his materials, or lack of care because he/she thinks the people purchasing will lack understanding or won't notice. Both of those could be indicative of people doing a job with low pay making items for a broad (foreign?) market rather than creating something they care about.
On the other hand, maybe the rather stylised head is simply a modern interpretation and could be a more individual piece and have more merit.
That may all be nonsense, but it is part of how I am coming to agree that yours is a less common example of that tourist type of cloisonné ususally coloured like this one.
Still, you are the one holding it, you can examine it carefully, we only have poor pictures ( 😉 ) to go on. An expert like Peter will certainly be able to tell you more from those pictures than I can.
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