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Anyone knowledgeable in chinese ivory? Need help

 
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springmeier
 springmeier
(@springmeier)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 460
Topic starter 17/12/2018 8:45 pm  

Hi, are these made of ivory or some kind of plastic? Any tips how to differentiate both? Thanks


   
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 Brettm
(@brettm)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1197
17/12/2018 9:22 pm  

Dear Springmeier,

I think the experts will need more detail in the photo's to answer you questions regarding the material. I may be about to make a fool of myself but the script on your items looks more like Sanskrit to me which if I am correct  would suggest  India as the place of origin. More expert opinion will not doubt follow shortly.

Regards

Michael


   
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springmeier
 springmeier
(@springmeier)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 460
Topic starter 17/12/2018 9:50 pm  

thanks michael, i don't have better pics at the moment. I think it is a qianlong mark. 


   
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carl-young
 carl-young
(@carl-young)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 590
18/12/2018 3:14 am  

The pair look like Ivory , I can just about see the cross hatching on the base where the light hits it.  


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7022
18/12/2018 4:15 am  

Hi spring,

I have discussed ivory, resin and simple ways to differentiate between what is and what is not a few times on the forum.

In addition the pictures you have posted are terrible, blurry.

I cannot see the criss cross on the base indicated by Carl. If it is there it is genuine ivory. 

Most ivory criss cross is more evident at the base.

Ivory can either be White or in most cases a creamy white.

It is very dense and smooth. Bone is slightly rough and pitted from calcium. Bone also has a grain, but it does not cross.

Finally if you use a ultraviolet light and shine on genuine ivory it will be a bluish-white. Resin will be a bluish colour.

As odd as it may sound, there is a colour difference between Asian ivory and African.

How many items do you have. The first picture is yellowish white base with Mount holes. The second and third a pair of Manchu figures and then finally the last picture.

Is the last picture the base of the first picture or something else. The picture colour differs.

Mark

This post was modified 6 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7022
18/12/2018 4:59 am  

I forgot to add the following,

Plastics and resin appear a dull blueish colour under UV.

Bone and shell also appear as similar fluoresce to that of ivory.

Vegetable ivory appears a slight orange. Made normally from Tagua palms nuts.

Ivory comes from elephant, mammoth, hippo, walrus, sperm whale and narwhal.

You may have to invest in a loupe 10x and a UV light if you contemplate buying ivory.

Sought after with the Chinese market, as it is a status symbol.

Most auctions and even eBay have recently banned the sale of said.

The pair of figures are fairly well made. From what I can from the front view only.

Mark

This post was modified 6 years ago by Adams Asian Art

   
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Ok.Tc
 Ok.Tc
(@ok-tc)
Reputable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 224
18/12/2018 5:54 am  

Hi

The only thing i could say on this i have two  ivory pieces if you hold a piece of ivory it feels very smooth naturally oils in skin change its colour will You will be looking for little streaks or pores known as "Haversian System" which, if the signs are all there, indicates bone a red hot pin is still the best way  the pin will not  mark the ivory 

Br Chris 

This post was modified 6 years ago 2 times by Ok.Tc

   
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springmeier
 springmeier
(@springmeier)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 460
Topic starter 18/12/2018 9:48 am  

Hi

The first picture is the base of the last figure.

Are these criss cross marks? (please zoom in on the picture)
Thanks for you all to take the time to help.


   
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Michael M.
 Michael M.
(@iluvatar)
Prominent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 555
18/12/2018 10:36 am  
Posted by: springmeier

Hi

The first picture is the base of the last figure.

Are these criss cross marks? (please zoom in on the picture)
Thanks for you all to take the time to help.

Yes they are. Certainly looks like ivory to me! ?

~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7022
18/12/2018 7:11 pm  

It appears to be ivory. Still difficult to determine from pics.

You may want to examine the back. Somewhere you should find the tell signs.

Chris is correct with the hot pin test. However on the road, so to speak it is difficult to use and or apply. Owners get jumpy sometimes over such methods. The UV test is very good and effective and non intrusive. A run of a number of tests between known examples and others and you will soon get the hang of it. Used by most ivory dealers that I know of.

As to age/quality a loupe on the finer details or lack of will be revealed on the finer parts on the carving, such as the hands. Well made and you will see the finger nails. Badly or made in haste you will not see this. Also the facial features.

Sorry spring I am still using a phone, so details may not be so obvious.

I take it that these have been offered to you by way of sale. 

Mark


   
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Xin_Wyssemaria
 Xin_Wyssemaria
(@xin_fawis)
Noble Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1329
19/12/2018 9:11 am  

According to the cross lines pattern and the point in the center, they should be ivory. But they are not of the Qianlong period.

www.Wyssemaria-Art.com
[email protected]
Instagram: @wyssemaria_art


   
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