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Hi All,
This punch bowl (12" across) has been repaired, but I thought the quality of the decoration made it worth buying. I have seen this decoration before, in teacups and saucers, invariably chipped, and figured this one was worth the price (given the break, it was fairly cheap), just because of the size and quality. Looking online, I see this famille rose design with dates from the late 18th century to the late 19th century, but the white porcelain and the quality makes me think this is 18th century. Any thoughts?
It did occur to me that this could be French, and Samson did make bowls copying this style, but the decoration on this bowl looks better than the Samson bowls I found. On the other hand, it may have the "pinched" flowers that Peter says is a sign of a French bowl. If you tell me it is French, I will only be mildly surprised.
The repair was very nicely done, but whatever adhesive they used has yellowed, so now it is fairly obvious.
Thanks,
Charles
These can be tricky, especially being unable to feel it and searching for comparisons can bring up possibly misidentified pieces.
However, I think 19th c french, most likely Samson, mainly because of the raised white decoration. Is that pâte-sur-pâte? If so, that would confirm it as I think it was a 19th c french technique. A.so the flowers on the internal upper border seem too vague for Chinese and the red looks wrong tome, but that could be the screen.
It is a lovely bowl either way.
Hi Charles,
Another wonderful find, I personally don't mind the damaged pieces, and I am finding that more and more collectors are willing to tolerate some damage if it means they can actually have a high quality example.
I actually think this is Chinese and late 18th century.... the foot certainly appears to be ( samson feet are usually much whiter paste and often glazed over) and the fact that the white that appears to be pâte-sur-pâte does look to be white enamel instead (more like Bianco Spora Bianco), rather than slip (even if it is the Chinese were using slip decoration on export wares all through the 18th and 19th centuries), makes me think Chinese. The floral and border decorations are pretty standard for Jiaqing export, often seen with Mandarin scenes on the exterior.
As far as the gilding wear there is some, but I have seen plenty of examples that are virtually flawless, though usually I can't afford them... 😖
The Art exchange in New York, was fairly well respected and its proprietor Adolf Beckhardt and then Theodore Beckhardt (who worked for Christie's) was very highly respected, and really mostly dealt in Chinese pieces. I have had and seen quite a few pieces from them over the years, mostly 18th century export but a few Ming export pieces... always top quality.
Not to be a contrarian, but I really don't see anything French about this one.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Not the best examples, but I'm still working on my coffee....
Slip decorated platter:
Jiaqing examples with similar borders:
https://cpsheffield.com/items/chinese-famille-rose-punch-bowl-qianlong-c1770/
https://www.diplomaticrooms.state.gov/objects/chinese-export-porcelain-hong-punch-bowl/
Bianco Sopra Bianco:
https://gotheborg.com/glossary/bianco.shtml
https://cpsheffield.com/items/chinese-famille-rose-charger-qianlong-c1750/
You could well be correct, Jeremy. I forgot about bianco sopra bianco and was just thinking of the Chinese using a more simple slip-decoration - along with the fact that somewhere, I have a pair of Samson plates with a similar effect. Or maybe they aren't Samson? It has got me wondering now. 😊
Jeremy and Julia,
Thanks for the information. Peter mentioned pâte-sur-pâte decoration on Chinese items in a video last week, and I found several examples (like the ones that you found, Jeremy) so that didn't bother me. I am glad that the label was on the bottom, and your information about the Art Exchange in New York is wonderful! That convinces me that there is a high probability that it is Chinese and 18th century.
Julia, you are correct that the red appears to be the wrong color in my photos--that was sloppiness on my part, photographing the bowl indoors. The red is actually the standard iron-red seen on Chinese porcelain; I should have photographed it in natural light. We had an incredibly rare week of rain last week (bad timing with the International Balloon Fiesta in town), and I was too excited to wait a week to photograph it outside.
Once again, the folks here on the Forum are fantastic!
Charles
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