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Hi, All.
I found this colorful vase at a local estate sale, and really like the colors. It is 17" tall and is clearly hand-thrown and not molded--the shape is very nice, very balanced. It has a very neatly hand-painted Qianlong mark on the bottom. The main motifs are large blooming flowers, but there also branches covered with cherry blossoms, bamboo shoots and leaves, and orange and black birds. The enamel on the flowers (or most of them) is clearly blown on as powder.
The birds make me think it is circa-1900, but the flowers look more like Republic to me. The unglazed porcelain showing on the foot rim is very smooth, but looks oatmealy, with different colored specks--more late Qing than Republic to me. The little step in the foot rim also looks late Qing to me.
On the other hand, the perfectly flat, and not obviously hand-cut footrim, looks more like PROC than anything else. Also, the odd mixture of motifs, with flowers, cherry blossoms, birds, and bamboo shoots, just seem overdone-like they threw everything they could at it.
My guess is late Qing-early Republic, but if you tell me this is a well decorated 1960's vase, I would not be surprised... There is an inscription, but I could not make out a cyclic date, if there is one. If anyone can translate, thank you!
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Charles
Hey Charles, I ran the translation through chatgpt:
"
| 松 竹 梅 歲寒 | “sōng zhú méi suì‑hán” | Pine, bamboo and plum endure the rigours of winter. These three plants are known as 歲寒三友 – the “Three Friends of Winter,” symbols of constancy and steadfast virtue. |
| 桃 李 杏 春暖 | “táo lǐ xìng chūn‑nuǎn” | Peach, plum and apricot flourish in the warmth of spring. The flowering fruit trees stand for renewal, vitality and the pleasures of the new season. |
戊戌秋月 於景德山 □□書
Written/painted in the autumn month of the Wuxu year, at Jingde‑shan (Jingdezhen), signed …
戊戌 (wù‑xū) is a cyclical year; recent ones are 1898 or 1958."
**
I can't confirm accuracy but this is a start at least.
**
If I had to guess, it might be later still which would fit the 1958 year date. I recognize this quality a bit on a lamp I have.
This is a nice vase. I agree with the 1958 date, the flowers have thst typical PROC look to me.
Birgit
Thanks, Preston and Birgit.
I am amazed that chatgpt could translate that calligraphy--the individual characters are poorly formed. Squinting at them, I can just recognize the lines of poetry as what you found, Preston, but I still can't match the cyclic date characters that chatgpt found... AI is indeed getting better.
The 1958 date makes sense. A mid-century PROC vase seems right. Looking around online, I find modern vases with fairly similar designs, but most have a different, simpler base, and a blue underglaze reign mark.
The cyclical date could also be the third and fourth symbol in the second row. Jia xu standing for 1934/1994. I should have looked before blindly believing ChatGPT.
Birgit
@kirby13 It's really lovely. I have an early PRC famille rose vase-lamp but not as big and elaborate as this one.
It seems it was a period before the export stuff became mostly transfer-decorated (by the 70s?). As Peter once noted, Mao tried to restore the porcelain industry in the 1950s.
Charles, it is still well drawn and executed. Nice style as well. It tells a story, someone that knows Chinese and Japanese 'pictorial' story telling maybe can tell you. It starts at one point one the vase and as you go around it, the story changes...With GPT Chat, I switched to Microsoft (Copilot, which is GPT Chat plus Microsoft deep penetration into all things) it is more accurate and I get better references out of it. Ask for reference articles as well when using either one. Also, you have to ask it not to repeat itself and when its wrong say so...It's a blast! Google image for Chinese and Japanese is nearly awful but at least it will give you some comparisons. I like the vase, old or modern, doesn't matter, its well executed. Cheers, Richard
Chatgpt, lens and generally any AI SE based systems are more of a leaping point than it is solid evidence. I try to add a disclaimer when I cite with it given the probability for error or misinformation is higher than say a trusted source, and I am no polyglut yet when it comes to translations. I do have a fun time trying to see how vast the dating is on a couple of ovoid NJ jugs when one has established recognition to its period and date. Even with 3 or 4 tries, it gets it right once or twice depending on the model used. Same thing when it gives any type of general market valuation or range. Additional information will help refine it but asking in vague or even certain ways will give a worse off standing answer than a refined one.
It's a decent translator, not really perfect unless you do what @quarker48 stated and essentially refine the answers due to technological errors. Sometimes it gets pretty stubborn too. I haven't tried copilot but I should mess with it later on.
@shinigami if we follow this date, then this would be republic period correct?
Thanks! First time I have ever been able to see a cyclic date.
@pbarski93 Difficult question. Somehow I still see it as a high quality PROC vase.
Birgit
It is a really beautifully decorated vase.
So the issue is it 1898 or 1958?
It's really difficult to determine by the pictures but I am leaning towards 1958. During the 50's they produced some fine porcelain and one could argue better than late Qing.
Either way it doesn't really matter as the quality is very high.
Mark
The base and mark chosen suggest a PROC date to me. It really is beautifully painted.
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