I hope you are right about these three items.

I don't know about the Wanli box, but I think you would expect to see wear and tear around the rims of the box and cover. 

The kangxi teapot also seems too pristine to me - on the inside there is no sign of use, and no fritting or age related wear on the outside. Teapots were of course made for use and almost always have a rough life, and kangxi porcelain is very prone to edge fritting. But yours looks unrestored and untouched.

The kangxi vase looks Ok , nice shape and the base looks old, although the decoration is not very careful or refined (eg the horses, and the filling in of the trees etc), so I'm not sure about that one. The chip to the rim looks new, which might or might not be significant. 

Hi,

I also don't know about the wanli box.  However, like Tam, I have reservations about the other two items. 

The teapot (maybe a wine pot?) does look unused.  Is the underside of the lid glazed?  I can't really tell.  there are two things that bother me in particular.  Most worrying is the lack of any fritting around the edge of the lid and spout but the existence of damage around the part one lifts the lid off with.  That part is harder to damage than the rest.  If dropped, one might expect that part to break off rather than fritt around the edges but in use the edges might get knocked but that top part is protected by fingers.  It looks deliberate.

The foot rim makes me uneasy, too.  I could so easily be wrong, but it doesn't feel right for the item.  Wasn't this kind of foot rim made to allow items to display easily on stands?  I have not seen a foot rim like this on a tea pot/wine pot before (possibly my lack of experience) so it strikes me as odd - as though this item was not made to be used, but put on display, but it doesn't have any amazing quality of decoration that might make it worthy of display in Kangxi times.  Thus, it seems worth considering if it was made that more recently and has that foot rim because of a basic misunderstanding of the use of foot rim shape or because it was meant for display only.  Would people in the Kangxi era want to display an ordinary-looking tea or wine pot?  Maybe, I don't know but in more recent times, they certainly do.  

As I said, I could easily be wrong, there could be loads of tea pots like this and I just haven't seen them, but because I haven't it strikes a jarring note.  As would a glazed underside on the lid, if that is the case.

Regarding the bottle vase, I agree with Tam that there is something about the decoration (shading) that makes me hesitate, the horses/figures look a little stiff, the shading depth creates a strange perspective but again, I am no expert!

Best wishes,

Julia  

Dear Tam and Julia,

Thank you for your comments on the tea pot and vase. I am sorry that I forgot to add the description of the tea pot made by the auction house in my last post. According to the auction house, the handle and sprout was broken and repaired. Although you cannot see in the picture, but you can see the crack using a UV light.

I have seen tea pots with clean feet before many times. Tea pots are more inclined to have broken handles and sprouts and even covers, but I rarely see tea pots with frit feet, just like dishes and bowls, which are more likely to have frits on rims than feet. I don't know if the pot was for daily use or display purposes, but the painting, cobalt blue and shape looks okay to me.

I agree with you guys about the paintings on the vase. The horse and figures look a little scrappy, but the shape, cobalt blue and foot looks fine. So if this is a fake vase, painting might be the reason. I am going to do some researches on Kangxi blue and white wares and see if I can find similar painting styles. The previous Yongzheng vase alerted me so I will be extremely careful about the rest.

Thank you once again for your thoughts, which opened up my mind. I will let you guys know what I find.

Dear Jason,

your Kangxi vase is correct to me. You have not mentioned the size, but I think that it is a small one, 20 cm more or less, isn’t it?

I have a small cylindrical Kangxi vase, about 15cm more or less, with the same decoration style and the same very nice blue. The cylindrical shape allowed me to take a picture of the whole decoration, which you can see here.

Instead, I am not sure about the other two pieces.

The decoration of the box is strange in many points. I can’t say that it is a fake, it could well be ok, or not. But the way of use of cobalt is strange, and strange also the decoration.

As for the wine pot, I have no experience. The cover rim, to answer to Julia, is not glazed and that is ok.

The decoration is really strange, that is not the way of representing the flowers during Kangxi. Peonies are peonies, prunus are prunus. Here, it is not clear which type of flowers we have, and the sprigs are not drawn in typical Kangxi style. Could it be a Kangxi revival piece? Just a suggestion

Giovanni

Hi Jasonma,

I found all your stuff on ROB MICHIELS. I follow this auction house since this year, so I can easliy recognize them.

Well, you're right they have good reputation. Peter has also posted their auction in the forum once. I found out that sometimes they are not really sure and just date them 19th/20th C or somehow. The Yongzheng vase and the Song bowl you bought are modern fake. Other members here have already given you a lot of informations.

The Wanli box is totally ok, no doubt. The Kangxi vase looks also ok, even if the painting is too rough. The tea or wine pot is also from Kangxi.

https://www.rm-auctions.com/en/asian-arts-i--ii/11716-a-chinese-famille-rose-immortals-vase-yongzheng?

The similar lot at this auction is also not Yongzheng, but old, it's a late Qing/Republican copy. So also wrong dating.

A lot of them are dated wrong, so be careful and study hard by yourself.

So next time I hope I can be there.

Xin

If the lid is unglazed underneath, that is good, as are breaks that have been expertly repaired - to me that may imply the item has value but of course it could be emotional attachment.  Still, the auction house has a good reputation, generally, so that is positive, as well.  My issue with the foot rim was the type of foot rim, not how clean it is.  I just hadn't seen that on a tea pot before.

I wouldn't want to mislead you.  I really am no expert whereas lots of these guys are and I am here to learn from them.  I am still not sure I can see the tea pot as Kangxi, Kangxi revival yes, but my not seeing something can easily be blamed on my lack of experience.  

I would be so pleased for you if these items are the real thing! 🙂  

Best wishes,

Julia

Just out of interest, please may I ask how many holes there are going from the body into the spout?  It is something I am trying to take note of when I come across things like this.

Thank you!

Julia

Dear Giovanni,

The height of the vase is 21cm, sorry that I did not mention that. Yes, I can see the decoration style of your vase is very similar to mine, and even the colors, the shades, the face expressions, clothes, and even the mountains. However, I just got a review from an esteemed expert of porcelain that my vase could be a modern copy. This is a pretty sad news but according to him, the cobalt blue lacks expressions of different levels of shades as other Kangxi ware. His point was further agreed by three other people. This really made me frustrated and confused. Have you got your vase identified?

The decoration on the round box is a budda lion, which is a very typical decoration on Wanli ware.

I see what you meant about the pot. I cannot recognize the type of flowers on one side of the pot either. I think this pot might be an export product, so those flowers might be european flowers.

Thank you for your feedbacks.

Dear Xin:

Yes, you are right. these items were bought from ROB MICHIELS. The vase you posted looks better than mine. The faces are more detailed and the colors look more antique. The thing was when I was bidding, the feeling of excitement became overwhelmed, and trusted ROB MICHIELS too much, so I did not look closely. I could have avoided the vase if I had looked more closely.

An expert of porcelain in China pointed out the vase lack levels of shades of cobalt blue, he is not very optimistic about the vase. 🙁

The teapot and box are fine, as you said.

Rob has got many great porcelains, but like you said, you should be really careful to identify the incorrectly dated and even modern ones.

Thank you for your comments.

Dear Julia:

The type of foot rim of the tea pot is very common on Kangxi Vase. I agree that it is not common on tea pots. The decorations on the tea pot is more like export style, because as Giovanni pointed out on one side of the tea pot, the pattern of the flower is not so Chinese style in Kangxi period.

I am not sure about what you meant by holes from body to sprout. Did you mean breaks that were restuck? There are 1 break on the body and 1 break on the handle that were restuck and repainted. If you meant the holes where water comes out of the tea pot when pouring, there is only 1 hole that relates the sprout to the body. Sorry if I misunderstand your question. If I do misunderstand, please let me know.

Thank you.

Hi,

No, that is correct, thank you! Very helpful.  I should perhaps have asked that first as I believe (and I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong) that if this is a tea pot then the less holes the older it is.  Equally, might the presence of just one hole confirm it as a wine pot?  

It is good to know that the foot rim is merely unusual on this type of item, so that is both of my main concerns dealt with and I have learnt something new which is always a good start to the day.

Maybe you should ask a major auction house about the vase?  The shading is odd (and I still feel one of the horses in particular looks like it has been stuck on the landscape rather than part of it) but our experts here seem to think it is within an acceptable parameter so maybe it is ok. 

Best wishes,

Julia  

Dear Jason,

my vase is Kangxi, no doubt. The blue is a bit enhanced than in real, it was matter of the type of sensor of my previous camera. Look, in the following pictures, the detail of the base and the mouth. Nobody should have doubt about it being Kangxi. Look also at the many shades of blue.

Said that, let’s go back to your Kangxi vase. Because it is Kangxi to me. I do not know who is the Chinese expert that told you that there are no enough blue shades, but I have some doubts about him being expert if he said that.

Show him the images below, or even better show him pictures of the details of the shades, like the pictures of my vase, and ask him how many shades it should have more than that.

Or better, ask him to show you a Kangxi vase with more shades than those on your vase, it will be fun.  

Without mentioning the painting style, the type of blue.

The only point that is a bit perplexing is the too much clean foot and base, but I believe that it is matter of picture. In fact in your picture of the base I see that the exposure is correct for the decorated area, hence the base looks more whitish than in real, being a bit overexposed.

You have a Kangxi vase, with a superb blue, not common to find.

As for the Ming box, I know that the motif is found during Ming, but I found strange the way it is made. Not only the lion but the whole decoration. I didn’t say that it is not Ming, just strange, I have not a firm conclusion about it.

Giovanni

Dear Giovanni,

There is a website in Chinese: http://jd.cang.com/ that is pretty honorable among Chinese collectors. The website provides identification services by a group of experienced experts or collectors. They charge about $2.5 each time for identifying items you provide. Of course, this is not always accurate because some time you cannot tell by pictures only.

I submitted my items to the website. The Yongzheng vase and the Song dish were identified as "Fake" like the other guys said in this post. The teapot and Ming box were identified as "inclined to be authentic" as they are pretty conservative without seeing the items in real. This Kangxi vase was identified as "Modern copy" yesterday by one of the experts with the reasons given in my previous reply. I thought the expert might be wrong, so I submitted again to another expert this afternoon. I just got the second result as "suspicious". The reasons given were "This vase decoration looks like Kangxi style, but the facial expressions look modern, the shades of colors are obscure, the foot is suspicious. Cannot confirm the authenticity with the provided pictures. Be cautious of buying". 

I then posted this vase in a Chinese forum, which is pretty similar to this forum, and 4 out of 5 have said "not optimistic" so far.

However, when I search for more information about Kangxi vase, I found this Kangxi Kendi with a similar decoration on ebay. This Kendi was recommended by Peter so I watched and saved in my Ebay account:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-CHINESE-BLUE-amp-WHITE-EXPORT-PORCELAIN-KENDI-EWER-18th-or-19th-C-silver-mount-/183387633560?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=smA64bXGMyXaT3q3L2tJQt6JpJs%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

I am sure Peter could not be wrong.

So confused if I should cancel this vase too. ? 

This Kangxi style kendi is from 19th C. The cobalt blue looks like floating on the glaze. And the brush strokes which you can see on the rocks are also typical 19th C. revival type.

Dear Jason,

your vase is Kangxi, and a nice one. If you collect Kangxi ware and you like it, my suggestion is to keep it.

Even among Kangxi ware it is not easy to find that particular, very nice type of cobalt blue. It is of the best type.

About the “experts”, I am not surprised, that is normal. Which pictures have you sent them, the same that you have posted here? If yes, they have a partial excuse; just partial because also from those pictures, although not very detailed, if one has experience can spot it as being a real one.

If one of those experts told you that the faces are off, well, what to say? They even said that the blue and the shades are off; ask them to show you better shades, that is ridiculous.

Keep in mind that most people play an “expert” role without being so. Even at the major Auction houses.

You certainly understand to whom I am referring if I mention the three major Auction houses based in London. Well, the one of them reputed to sell the finest pieces told me that a rare type of Kangxi vase that I submitted to them was not worth to spend the money for shipping.

Because I knew what I had in hand, I sent it to another one of them and the vase was sold for a very high price. So you can figure out how to behave.

Giovanni