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@jg1133 You may check out pictures of typical later bronzes (Song to Qing period) in MET and British Museum and compare to this one. While the red lacquer residuals still remains, the dull and powdery patina across the vessel body is apparently different than the glowing sheen on the undisturbed naturally patinated surface on the museum pieces, which is hard to explain. In addition, picture #4 shows pure white matter accumulated inside the mask loop, which is also suspicious. If that’s sand instead dust, it would be indicative of modern foundry. There are many other details that can be studied and discussed. I would rather leave it for open discussion than rush to a conclusion based on my own opinions. Best
@ubecha Well it definitely is not sand, if you zoom in you can see it is consistent on the entire piece and shows small fibers and thicker pieces, which rings dust to me. Definitely not sand - also it looks naturally accumulated, does not appear to be artificial in any way in the way it lays on the piece.
I looked at the Qing examples (not Song, Yuan, or Ming) at the MET, and found this one who's patina and decoration detail pretty well matches this one:
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/42090
Some surface patina differences are to be expected, as a piece in the MET has been conserved consistently and is free of dust. Ebay examples have been who knows where and exposed to who knows what, leading to some subtle differences I can imagine.
I still stand by my thoughts that this looks Qing to me.
Are you seeing anything specific that leads you to believe otherwise?
Justin
@jg1133 As I said, the eBay example is lack of the glowing luster that one can easily find in later bronzes either in museum exhibits or the examples sold at major auction houses. The dull and powdery patina are suspicious. I have found other interesting problems but I would rather let other people find out by themselves. Best
@ubecha ok, so since you did this before and got ripped for it I don't feel bad in saying AGAIN you are wasting people's time and frankly not instilling confidence that you know anything at all, because I am not seeing it. I find it a bit strange that this is the second time you have chosen something from the newsletter and implied that Peter doesn't know what he is doing, but not giving any reasoning for this, instead trying to have others pick the piece apart and holding back this special knowledge you have.
@johnshoe this was exactly what we thought was going to happen. Not sure if this is a troll trying to knock on Peter or what, but let's see if this post gets deleted as well now that the same thing happened as it did the last time.
So dumb.
Great Qing or possibly Japanese 19th century archaic style bronze. With that size it will make a great display and piece for discussion. Don’t see anything comparable at current price point. With 8 hours left at auction I am considering selling some of my Doge Coin and bidding. What say all, Yea or Nay?
George
@ubecha Also, to be honest, I think it is really unfair to the seller to be posting their item alluding that it is fake but not providing any evidence or information to back that up. Again, interesting that the seller is a well known one in the eBay Asian antiques world and one Peter himself has mentioned several times.
Again, to echo the recommendation of others, trying to artificially force a "discussion" is not the way to do it in the forum, by bringing information or education to the conversation is the way to be a trusted part of the community and start a dialogue. Also, as I said before, listening and taking constructive criticism is very helpful as well. I made a mistake with a forum member before and was called out on it, and I appreciated it and took it as a learning experience for the future.
We are collectors trying to learn and going about it the way that you are is not conducive to that goal.
I hope you understand where we are coming from, but also hope that this isn't anything personal towards the seller or Peter.
Best,
Justin
@jg1133 The seller in eBay says in his listing that he learned from a forum that the bronze is of late Ming or early Qing, which means that he is not authoritative in Chinese bronzes, he is open for discussions and he welcomes other people’s opinions. If the example could be discussed before it was listed at eBay, why is it unfair to discuss it here at an open form? I have made some points in the previous post but I refuse to rush to any conclusions. If it’s indeed an authentic piece, open discussions will promote bidding with confidence. I have my right to post my opinions and that’s called the freedom of speech
Now that the auction is over, I can share my opinion. It is an authentic early 17th century Hu-Zun bronze yet with an old repair on its body and compromised/disturbed patina on its surface. But it should be noted that the patch on the foot rim is not a repair. A tip: To authenticate a later bronze, one has to study the interior instead of just focusing on the patina on the outside. The realized price is a fair price. A bronze like this age, size and condition with no repair and undisturbed patina would cost $5,000 to $8,000. That’s it. I hope you all had fun
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Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.