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@lucky_sun123 Would you mind posting a clear close up of the foot rim in the top area where it is grainy and almost black?
Aside from the black mass, do you see the difference in the form of the foot rim?
I'm not sure which Christie's example you're using... I searched 'Ming porcelain cong' and zero results came up.
When I search 'longquan cong', five results with photos show up. In all examples, the celadon glaze falls short of the foot rim, and the foot rim seems to have a slightly conical form (with the tip flattened). In the photo you posted, the edge of the conical foot has celadon glaze dripped on it as it turns flat.
In your vase, the foot is flat and the celadon glaze runs fulsh to the flat foot rim.
That example which is simular in stretch of the imagination at best came from not a cong vase but a reg longquan vase of song/ming. I will try to get a clear straight shot of it. There is no sunshine today in my neck of the woods. But ill do my best with lighting etc.
the color is hard to capture. It appears more light green in most of the photos. In person prob a shade our 2 darker. To me appears there is some age on the foot. The places where it has been rubbing can see more of a whitish body. Some brown glaze slip over near the warped foot area. Has a couple chip marks also.
@lucky_sun123 Those are good clear photos.
That black pitted area... I can not tell you what caused that, but it does not appear to be found on Ming, Yuan, and Song pieces. It just looks to be window dressing to make the foot look old.
Let me just say that if the foot was a pefect match with know period examples (which it is not), my opinion would not have changed. It is well known that forgers have essentially mastered every known physical aspect of re-creating an early piece of porcelain, which essentially leaves the determination of authenticity up to how well the overall artistry and composition of a piece conforms with known examples.
Fortunately, most forgers fall short on achieving harmony with their attempts, but with early monochromes, the fakes are always quite close and generally can only be completely discounted through physical examination and/or laboratory testing - unless there is a glaring fault.
Anyway... my position stands. Best of luck.
Thank you again for your consideration and feedback!!! if I hear different ill present a case, going off hear say and hypothetical as this is ill consider this a fake. Thanks again 🙂
Can we see the inside. Tim my thought was based on the glaze and clay. I haven’t seen a fake with the glaze done in the Ming style. Yes I don’t like the burnt foot. The body is distorted due to the collaps from I suspect another vase. The glaze to me still looks correct.
Brown dressed foot, did the Japanese ever make a cong vase? You could use the Identification Assistant for 12.00 and have Peter weigh in on it.
@lotusblack That makes some sense about the glaze, but this is the big risk we ALL take when we look at each individual component, rather than considering the work on a holistic approach, AND treating flaws as an explination for an authentic work appearing less than the high standard set by undamaged/unflawed works.
I don't question your good taste and knowledge... you have both, and I would be sad to hear that you would intepret our disagreement as anything other than friendly debate.
That said, I think you are far more forgiving than I am on certain aspects of authenticity, and I believe this is because you have more experience selling decorative pieces than I do, and your success at selling these more decorative pieces has widened your span of tolerance for what is acceptable among consumers. From a seller's standpoint, if the market provides willing buyers, then so be it - I don't disagree.
However, we should not transfer these experiences to collectors. From a collector's standpoint, I don't feel that this is a good practice because we should be curators of our collections, seeking to preserve the best available examples of period art that our budgets permit, and we should approach every 'new find' with skepticism if and when it does not conform precisely to known examples for the sake of preserving the standards set by the founding scholars of this field. New ideas on authenticity present huge consequences if they are not properly founded.
At the end of the day, this was a $45 purchase of an unusual vase, so there is no financial loss to speak of. However, I caution against the use of descriptions such as 'good Longquan piece from the Ming' when in addition to glaring construction problems, the piece also lacks significantly in other artistic aspects.
And as a matter of fact, I would not mind to be proven wrong on this vase. Cong vases are extremely rare from the Song and Yuan (not sure why I haven't come across any longquan congs in the Ming), and an imperfect piece would still be a fantastic discovery.
Yes have to wait till tomorrow till I can try to capture maybe some more photos inside and close ups of the glaze itself. I did reach out to peter on the Identification part of things waiting to hear what he thinks based on the photos.
My opinion still is the piece could be fine for Ming I actually own a Longquan celadon vase the glaze is correct. Your right I have held a lot of decorative celadon pieces no modern celadon that ai can remember was able to produce the glaze it never looks correct.
@lotusblack some pics of the glaze in natural sun. Has thousands of tiny little bubbles!!
Can see a couple bigger bubbles here and there. The glaze is amazing!!!
Inside the vase the crackle doesn't have the golden brown in the crackle.
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