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3 antique bronzes shang, zhou and han dynasties
Hello how are you doing? this time I decided not to disappear specially after that terrible post last time, this time I present to you some bronzes for those who are interested in this field, maybe you could tell us something about them: @jeremy @bartholin @julia @shinigami @lep @johnshoe @ronm @sharonp @short-dong @greeno107 @jbeer2121 @brettm @john-steward
@clayandbrush @tam18 @xin_fawis @plcombs @watership @nicdan @ming1449 @gfhandel @ubecha @lotusblack @jg1133 @avatar @kaolin
1- a possibly Shang dynasty bronze cup or bowl:
2- a possibly Zhou dynasty jar and cover:
the closest example I found is this one in christies: https://www.christies.com/lot/an-unusual-bronze-cylindrical-tripod-vessel-and-5823907/?intObjectID=5823907&lid=1
3- a Han dynasty jar and cover with Gold and silver decoration:
I found this example here: https://www.artfoxlive.com/product/2768754.html#prettyPhoto and on sothebys: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/important-chinese-art/an-exceptionally-rare-and-important-gold-silver
I hope I'm not doing all of this for a bunch of fakes just as the last time, I'll appreciate any feedback from you guys, thank you
I think they are copies the patina seems all layered it should be under the skin not on top of it.
These look all to be copies of old pieces, look at the crispness of the casting on the Christie's and Sotheby's examples compared to the ones you posted.
Also, in my experience, when you see a label with a barcode or qr code on it and it isn't from one of the majors, it is probably a fake.
Were all of these aquired from the same seller?
It is also looks like the label has been created with the name blocked out. It is not any easy position to block it out neatly by hand. I don't think a collector or dealer would do that to a label as provenance is important; if they didn’t want it, they would remove it.
Other than that, sorry I can't help, I am not good with bronzes. Don't think about disappearing though, we have all bought bad things. You just have to learn and move on. Maybe ask before buying, too. 😊
I only own three Chinese bronzes and I struggle to distinguish if bronze items are genuinely old, however, I was fortunate to be able to purchase a Western Zhou bronze chariot bell from the Brian Page collection and below are some photographs of it which I hope may be of help regarding the patina. My bell still jingles, albeit slightly dulled due to the build up on the surface.
OH and to add to what @julia said, we have ALL made horrible purchases, especially early on. I have come to the conclusion after some really terrible losses that I simply do not have the knowledge to be one of the very rare exceptions of finding a great deal hidden somewhere. My suggestion would be to save up for one good thing per year from a reputable dealer or auction house, and ask questions. One of the best pieces of advice I have gotten was that one good thing is better than a bunch of bad ones.
Please don't go anywhere, this is how we all learn 😀
@jg1133 I really agree. I'd rather have one 300 hundred dollar item that I really like over 30 ten dollar items, that have disappointed me
I agree with the above said. Also for the beginning it might be best to concentrate on one area only, for example porcelain OR metal OR jade, as it’s impossible to learn all about everything in a short time.
I agree. The bronzes are all reproductions. The motifs and supposed corrosion isn’t correct. Bronze disease eats away the metal, it doesn’t grow out from it. Who ever you bought these from, Run Away Fast!
Well all of you thank you again, I'm a bit shocked but it's my fault after all, I rush from field to another without enough knowledge and experience, the good news is that I didn't bought these ones yet, and after reflecting on the notes you @lotusblack have said and especially what @33kills said: "Bronze disease eats away the metal, it doesn’t grow out from it" I have like (maybe) an item that have this description and criteria, it's supposed to be from the han dynasty and it doesn't look fancy at all, but I'm not claiming anything at this point:
thank you all of you for golden knowledge you share here, I'll appreciate if you share with me some books or videos talking about bronzes and how to identify fakes from originals
@sadoq95 personally I think bronze and metalworks are the trickiest to figure out.
@johnshoe totally agree. When Im considering a bronze I get opinions from about 400 different people. Even then, there are some very convincing fakes that are at reasonable price levels.
@sadoq95 Another reproduction in my opinion. The base is very strange looking. Almost looks like wax.
That bronze Hu defiantly looks wrong. Any bronze with gold and silver inlays are warning signs when on the open market. Im not saying an occasional one doesn't comes up but, isn't it convenient that the decorations are nice and visible? Just enough "fake" patina to make a person take a second look. Take a look at museum pieces with silver inlays, there is a huge difference.
And please, any experts out there, because Im definitely not one, please jump in and offer opinions.
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