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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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18th century Dinner Plate

 
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
Topic starter 08/04/2021 1:17 pm  

Hey all just wanted to see if you all concur with my dating this plate/ shallow bowl as early to mid 18th century.  Its 8 3/4" and very nice blue.

-Jeremy

IMG 4136
IMG 4132
IMG 4134

 


   
Paula G and Julia reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7243
08/04/2021 1:22 pm  

Looks Kangxi to me. I have some similar ones. They were on here but the photos will be long gone.


   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4851
08/04/2021 1:25 pm  

A nice export plate, I too have one of similar design. Yongzheng to early Qianlong in my opinion, as during Kangxi the twigs on the back were more elaborate. 

Birgit


   
Ronm, Sharon P, Jeremy Beer and 2 people reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7243
08/04/2021 1:38 pm  

You may be right, Birgit. It is odd about the twigs. I also learned ( years ago on Gotheborg I think) that the flowers reduced in appearance over the course of the century to twig-like, on which basis this is probably early qianlong.

But since reading that, I have seen several similarly adorned pieces described as Kangxi, with no reason other than the squiggles instead of flowers, to indicate they weren't.

In this case, to me, the shape and decoration seem very Kangxi but if the rule about the squiggles is correct, it would mean it isn't. I will check my plate if I can find it as Peter confirmed it was kangxi.

Edit: I can't get to the one that is the same type of this, but my smaller piece, more of a large saucer, has squiggles rather than flowers.

Maybe someone can clarify this; it would help more than just me, I am sure. 😊 

 

 


   
Sharon P, Jeremy Beer, Shinigami and 1 people reacted
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4851
08/04/2021 1:58 pm  

I have read that Kangxi rims had flowers and branches, while around 1720 they abandoned the flowers and around 1750 the branches so the back of the rim was empty. However all examples of flowers and branches in the books are in red and blue, so maybe the rule is only valid for colored pieces like Chinese imari. 

Birgit


   
Jeremy Beer, Sharon P and Julia reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7243
09/04/2021 1:06 pm  

I have been thinking about this a lot - I even dreamt about a biscuit barrel made in the (imaginary) Regency-Qianlong style - insane really!  Still, that aside, I think you may be right about the colours Birgit, that could be the key thing.  I have seen flowers in the colours you mention, but found other plates with just a squiggle/twig in blue.

I couldn't find the other plate that I mentioned, but as I had posted them both on here, I realised there might still be photos on my pc.  Here they are.  The pattern on the first is more similar but the shape of the second is.  Peter commented positively on both for Kangxi - they went up in the early days when he was active on here.  He did say the blue of the large plate was a less desirable shade, but I rather like it.  They are more squiggle like but admittedly not as sparingly done as the one in the original post.

WP 20180306 017
WP 20180306 026

 

WP 20181121 026
WP 20181121 032
WP 20181121 033

   
Jeremy Beer reacted
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4851
09/04/2021 1:48 pm  

Hi Julia, I have a very similar one like the plate on your first picture. On mine the rim is empty, so it was probably made a bit later. It was a common export design. I find it interesting that it was the inspiration for the Meissen straw flower pattern that was later copied by Royal Copenhagen. Here is a c. 1750 Meissen plate. 

ACB8C72C 001F 4593 B691 F156D741FDDA

Birgit


   
Jeremy Beer and Julia reacted
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7243
09/04/2021 1:56 pm  

That is a lovely plate, I have had a few pieces in that pattern over the years but none as lovely as that! You do have some beautiful pieces.

My little plate is particularly nice because it has the birds, not all of them do. 😊 

Have just noticed it is a really bad photo. 😆 


   
Shinigami reacted
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4851
09/04/2021 2:03 pm  

Yes the birds definitely make it special. 

Birgit


   
Julia reacted
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 Jeremy Beer
(@jbeer2121)
Famed Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1678
Topic starter 09/04/2021 3:12 pm  

@julia

I quite like the more muted blue one,  thanks for sharing!

Jeremy


   
Julia reacted
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