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I would like to know your opinion on this vase that Peter included in his weekly video. I don't know much about transitional blue and white but the other seller's items (especially the blue/white deer vase) made me thought it might be interesting to have a discussion about it.
In my opinion at least the vase below is modern. The seller doesn’t claim it to be anything else.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133644023947
Birgit
There is also this blue and white deer vase. To my eyes, the way the deer are depicted is over stylized like someone trying to imitate a 18/19th century hand too hard and failed.
The transitional vase decorations look blurry, something I don't see on genuine pieces. But this might be the photos themselves out of focus. Also, the way the tree and clothes are painted is interesting. I would be curious on what more experienced members think of it.
Without a single close up photo that shows clearly the bubbles in the slip and the blue cobalt lines, I would not gamble away my money. If genuine transitional, you're looking at $15-20k... Shouldn't the seller have a sense of obligation to show high resolution close-ups if they believed they're genuine?
One other point...where is there signs of age? I see a few firing flaws, but that seems to be the trend in fakes these days.
All of these vases shoukd show surface scratches on the mouth, around the shoulders, and near the foot rim from physical contact over 200-300 years of existence.
Without a single close up photo that shows clearly the bubbles in the slip and the blue cobalt lines, I would not gamble away my money.
Dear Greeno, if you base your judging on bubbles inspection, that is a good way for gambling away your money.
I NEVER inspect bubbles.
(BTW the painting style is off)
Regards,
Giovanni
Hi -
Attached image for comparison:-
Vase from the Butler Family Collection, H. 36 cm, dated to Chongzhen period ca. 1635-44 ...
Note the differences in the details, drawing and shading of the tulips to upper/lower neck, the lotus scroll to the neck bulge, the size of the figures and landscape scene place within ...
The Butler piece is painted in the so-called High Transitional style, and is a high quality example. Other pieces of similar type and period are known to show variations in the painting style/cobalt tone etc ...
I would concur with the points raised by @greeno107 - especially in regard to overall surface ware/defects ...
Stuart
@clay&brush
Dear Giovanni,
My apologises, we posted very close to one another ...
I trust you are well ...
With regards,
Stuart
@clayandbrush Never? You've truely been blessed with better eyes than me.
A modern piece might have been wood kiln fired, but I've never seen an antique piece electric kiln fired, so the bubbles help me in that way (Imperial pieces might be the rare exception that the bubbles are so fine that variations in size might be indistinguishable).
I agree the design and color is off, as I see the lines lack a certain sharpness of a confident artistoc hand, and the piling and overall color looks weak.
But, my broader point is that the seller failed to post a single clear photo that would permit a buyer to see the finest details, and yes, that includes bubbles in the slip.
If the seller had confidence that the piece was genuine, then they are derelict for not posting better photos. The more likely reason is that the seller knows these are copies.
There are pictures of a couple of similar vases with partly similar decoration available online. https://pollylatham.com/rare-large-transitional-vase-6021/
The ones that Stuart and Corey have posted have a far better shape where the body moves into the neck.
I also find that transitional wares have a richness of tone, a fluidity of shading and a confident style which I don't see in the vase Springmeier posted, but to be fair, the seller has made no claim to its age other than posting in the antiques section, (as many do and is very irritating when they do not state what age they think their items are). The bidding seems to have started quickly with several involved and many watching (some possibly out of interest only).
Could it be an old piece from another more recent period?
Dear Greeno,
are these the differences in bubbles types that you are talking about?
Sorry I forgot one picture
Hi Springmeier and Julia and all -
Just to show the differences in painting styles, cobalt tones, shading and shape/profiles, and also taking into consideration the variations in photography/image ...
Attached images of two bottle vases, both Chongzhen period, the first H. 37.1 cm, with slight neck lean and the second H. 36.3 cm, both private collections ...
The second example also includes precious emblems to the neck, similar but not identical, to the eBay example ...
Again, note the differences in overall painting styles, detailing, shading, figural size and landscape elements between these two and the eBay example ...
Although such pieces had long been known, especially in Holland where most were exported, methodical in depth study only started 40 years ago. In 1981 the Hong Kong Oriental Society held a large exhibition: ‘Transitional Wares and their Forerunners’ ...
It was only after this date, and the subsequent publications and exhibitions on wares from this period, that prices stated to increase for such. Before then, prices for such wares were, relatively cheap, as there was little demand for such and large, private, collections of such wares were unknown ...
As Julia mentions, the sellers description makes no claims to age, although posting it in the antiques section implies it is over 100 years old ...
Concur with Giovanni in regards to the painting style. Personally, I think this piece has little age ...
Stuart
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