?width=1441&height=302

I don't like it 🙂 

I don't know what you mean about the bid history , but as several people have said here , I would avoid such damaged pieces. These would be nice C18th vases (if not for the missing bits) but as export pieces these show up regularly, so you can always find better if you're patient - there is a great one here , which seems perfect in condition

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273470094113

Great find Tam,

I notice with the bid history that one of the bidders has a 100% activity with that seller. Maybe he hasn't bid in the last 6 months which might explain it. However if you have ever encountered the Chinese seller's. They are 100% shill bidders, they have a shill for every item bidding on them. So i am always check for shill bidders. 

I don't mind competing in a bid for an item but have no interest in competing with a shill bidder.

I will watch this item that you have posted it is really lovely, but i am guessing it will sell for big bucks. 

Dear Tam,

I think that the polychrome decoration of that garlic vase has been made in Europe.

Giovanni

Hi Short dong , ok I understand now about the shill bidding thx, I'm sure it goes on a lot and I don't see how ebay could combat it , because people can open new accounts with new email addresses all the time.

I could never understand how so many fake items end up 'selling' for such high prices, but it's probably just two or more shill bidders pushing up the price and hoping to snare a genuine buyer into thinking the thing must be valuable if people are bidding on it so enthusiastically.

Thx Giovanni, yes I think you're probably right - the flower basket does look more like European decoration than Chinese , but still, to find one of these in perfect condition on ebay is quite rare. It should do very well. 

Posted by: tam18

Hi Short dong , ok I understand now about the shill bidding thx, I'm sure it goes on a lot and I don't see how ebay could combat it , because people can open new accounts with new email addresses all the time.

I could never understand how so many fake items end up 'selling' for such high prices, but it's probably just two or more shill bidders pushing up the price and hoping to snare a genuine buyer into thinking the thing must be valuable if people are bidding on it so enthusiastically.

Thx Giovanni, yes I think you're probably right - the flower basket does look more like European decoration than Chinese , but still, to find one of these in perfect condition on ebay is quite rare. It should do very well. 

Yes, I experienced it first hand with a Chinese seller form China. He was a huge seller and had hundreds of items, and he starts them at 0.01 cents but had free post on each of them. So I could understand why it was essential he needs a shill to keep them at a certain level. so i tested it, and put a small max bid on multiple of his items. This was okay for me to do as the items were worth more than i bid and free post. I just happened to be online for early morning china time, and at almost the same time his shill bid up each of my bids to max. This was a many items, and i doubled checked the bid time with maybe 15 seconds between each bid. It was so obvious. I guess they did not think i would be online to see it. The shill can also retract his bid, and this is what he does after, then the near the end of the auction the shill is there, and bids up and sometimes over. 

That is the Chinese but i have never fully worked out if a shill over bids the price but i did check the retractions and cancelled bids and there were many on each item from the shill. So that is how they do it and avoid paying the fees. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-pair-of-Chinese-famille-rose-Mandarin-vases-shipping-scenes-18thc-Qianlong/153192966531?hash=item23ab032983:g:SS4AAOSwszVbqLeh

These are much more beautiful but AF so this will be interesting Alfred is a big seller, so we will see a true value here. 

Hi, in my personal opinion it makes no sense to buy badly damaged export porcelain. There are so many of these items on the European and US market that sooner or later an undamaged one pops up for an affordable price, either as auction or at a buy-it-now price. You will be more happy with an item that you can turn in your hand and admire from all sides than with one you have bought very cheap but can look at only from a certain angle on the shelf because of missing pieces.

Hi Shinigami

Yes, You are correct as always. I am going to watch these 2 as Alfred is a respected seller and his auction is usually graced by the more informed and professional buyer. I have seen sometimes one or 2 items he may have which would sell quite high in other auctions be passed over and so his buyers are very selective. Like some of the other big ebay auctioneers this is a fortunate occasion to view these items and see what kind of interest they generate. Since the first 2 I posted from another seller and that were much more damaged and not as good quality as Alfred's. 

I think in the future that professionally restored Antiques will have a much higher value which creates a problem I suppose in terms of professionally restored and unprofessionally restored. Once that business picks up then it will see the value of damaged antiques get very high. 

I am basing this from my experience in the technology market. There was a time when a damaged electronic device had zero value. Still today a damaged mobile phone has little or no value to a potential customer who is seeking a working mobile  phone. 

However since the refurbished market became extremely lucrative, a broken worthless phone can sell for almost as much as a working phone. Crazy as it sounds it is true. reason is the high cost of screen repair and replacements and parts being so high it has led to these phones having multiple value. 

Also in the second market a refurbished phone will now easily outsell and at a higher price most basic second hand phones from previous users. There are various reasons but buying a refurbished phone guarantees a problem free functioning phone. A second hand has not as great a guarantee. 

As always the most pristine and best condition phones from previous owners that really cared for their phone and kept the box, and can demonstrate it's perfect function still command the highest price above refurbished phone's.

However if you want to make money in that market you need to get your hands dirty and buy the riskiest of Phones to make the greatest profit. 

So Antiques are no different with the pristine and perfect Antique being the most sought after and desirable and commanding the highest price, the greater demand and  volume of sales remains to be filled.  

That is where i think professional restoration has a niche and will prove to be the most fruitful and sustainable business in antiques. I base that on my market experience and not my experience in Antiques which is quite limited. 

The customer is always the end user. 

Hi Short Dong,

yes I see what you mean. However these export pieces are not the iphone of the porcelain world, they are the discounter smartphone. Professional restoration is rather expensive so I don't think it's worth the trouble on items that are so plentiful on the market. An export piece in good condition might be cheaper than the price of a broken one plus the price of a professional restoration. I sometimes buy cheap damaged export pieces to try my hand at restoration, but I would never expect these items to have any value afterwards, it's just fun.

Professional restoration is done a lot, and honest dealers tell you about it. For example Guest and Gray in London have a lot of restored pieces on their website. I bought a large Kangxi vase from them that is perfectly restored and is a good investion in spite of the restoration, just because it is a beautiful and rare piece.

Posted by: Shinigami

Hi Short Dong,

yes I see what you mean. However these export pieces are not the iphone of the porcelain world, they are the discounter smartphone. Professional restoration is rather expensive so I don't think it's worth the trouble on items that are so plentiful on the market. An export piece in good condition might be cheaper than the price of a broken one plus the price of a professional restoration. I sometimes buy cheap damaged export pieces to try my hand at restoration, but I would never expect these items to have any value afterwards, it's just fun.

Professional restoration is done a lot, and honest dealers tell you about it. For example Guest and Gray in London have a lot of restored pieces on their website. I bought a large Kangxi vase from them that is perfectly restored and is a good investion in spite of the restoration, just because it is a beautiful and rare piece.

Hi Shinigami,

What i am saying is that there is going to be more of a profit in being a professional restorer than just an antique dealer. 

If you can combine the two trades, and specialise in Porcelain then you will find picking up beautiful but damaged pieces cheaply is not so hard as waiting months and years for the same beautiful item in perfect condition. Hence get it, restore it, and save another buyer many months of searching and waiting and make a profit. 

I know it is crude to compare this business to mobile phones but the core business model is very much the same. People are scared of fake phones. They get nervous and they are also nervous about second hand as they fear there could be some fatal flaw that the seller is concealing. Something that makes the phone a bit of a dud.

The refurbished phones have a guarantee, the seller has a reputation, will not risk selling a fake phone and secondly the phone while refurbished is guaranteed to work. So you will see these phones exceed sales volume and price of basic second hand phones form less well known sellers. Sales volume is key over price. In the mobile phone scenario. 

The price can fall into these categories. 

1.The highest prices are always the phones that are in pristine condition, and they fetch retail prices. 

2.Then the refurbished phones fetch the second highest prices.

3.Then the good condition second hand phones but with signs of usage, scratches and maybe a tiny cracks on the chassis.

4.Phones with Cosmetic damage such as cracks on their screen, back panel cracked or smashed but otherwise working perfectly. 

5.Then broken or damaged phones selling for parts. 

6.Then second hand phones that are not displayed or described properly but are again just basic second hand phone sometimes in good condition or a mix of the used and cosmetic damage.

So you can sell a perfectly working second hand phone and get less than you would selling a broken phone for parts if you do not describe it properly, and photograph it properly.After analyzing all of that then the conclusion for selling Chinese Porcelain is to be a professional restorer, this gives you an instant supply of cheap Chinese porcelain.Have a good seller reputation, so you are trusted for selling genuine pieces, Have guarantees and a good reputation. In this business you kind of want to auction superior collections.However you can supplement this by having a large restoration inventory. 

Interesting business idea, to offer refurbished porcelains. For me the hunt for the perfect piece is part of the fun, but I also know people who just look for something old that looks nice in their Chinese cupboard.

A professional restorer could buy, repair and resell in his spare time. Don’t know if anyone would do it though, there are not many of them and they all seem quite busy.