The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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Hi All,
Is this a 21st century confection ? It seems to have dirt where no dirt should be. Revolving vases are pretty thin on the ground for me to make any comparison except at the high end Auction houses, don't think this has the quality or age to ever concern them. However if it was early 20thc or late 19th it would be an interesting item to have at the right price. Thoughts please.
Michael.
Absolutely 20/21st century.
The look is overdone and far too busy. The colours are terrible and ultra modern. The look is dull.
The washed out seal mark used is seen a lot on modern pieces.
The dirty rim is awful, fake and over done.
Mark
Thanks Mark,
You have confirmed what I was dubious of but should of known.
Regards
Michael
Hi Michael,
this is really interesting. It appears that it is a modern piece faked to look like a late 19th century copy masquerading as a Qianlong piece?
Nic
Hi Nic,
As it has been often noted in the forum things are only fake when they are not only made to deceive but are marketed in such a way that it adds to the deception. For all I know these could have been or maybe still are available in department or gift shops in China sold as decorative reproductions. Except as Mark pointed out the base looks contrived and when you think about it that part of the base would not have been in contact with anything to pick up such grime. The current seller has made no claims as to it being an antique. I guess if I found this in a shop with a low enough price with no postage costs I might be tempted to buy it as a novelty item. Gift shops in Australia are full of plastic rubbish at surprisingly high prices.
Michael
Hi Michael,
I hope I didn’t give offence. I didn’t explain why I asked the above question, my fault.
it kinda went like this:
1. I looked at the item and thought “gosh, that’s unusual”. I’d never seen a revolving pot before.
2. I read Mark’s comment and went back to have another look at the colour and dirt - more as a learning opportunity, to see if I could ‘see’ it too.
3. When I looked at the mark, it exhibited ‘hollow line’ which, if the theory is correct, must date it to 1850-1920. I didn’t mention this because I know that lots of people do not set any store in the theory. Again, it was just me doing a bit of very amateurish investigation. I am in no way qualified to judge the accuracy of the theory, but I thought I’d chase it up. Just out of curiosity.
4. I went to my Allen’s and found a passage I vaguely remember from before: “until the appearance of the little peach bloom vase in 1995, I had never seen hollow line on any fake from the 20th century.”
5. When I combined both sets of information, I asked the above question... - “does this mean that this is a fake of a 19th century copy of a Qianlong piece?” Or words to that effect.
I don’t know if applied dirt or ‘hollow line’ indicate a deliberate attempt to deceive or whether these things just add to its appeal. I definitely agree that it is infinitely better than the mountains of plastic junk that’s out there, whatever it may or may not be.
I should’ve explained more fully to begin with. Apologies.
Nic
Nic'
Absolutely no offense taken on my part. My concern is for the current seller I just picked his pot out after a random search on ebay. Regardless of the merits of the pot, would not like to think that people think I was in anyway trying to say he is knowingly selling a questionable item.
You are right about there seemingly is three possible periods all rolled into one pot a conundrum indeed. Pity it's so far away it might look better in the flesh... but I doubt It !
You are also right about revolving pots not being often seen I have never found one on ebay before, Peter mentions one in a video think it was in one of the high end auction catalogues. I have posted a link with some information on how they were made. The quality of the one in the link is wonderful.
Michael
Hi Michael,
Glad we’re OK. I understand your concerns about the seller. I sometimes post screenshots as opposed to a link for the same reasons.
The revolving vase in the link is astonishing!
Thank you,
Nic
Hi Michael,
I hope I didn’t give offence. I didn’t explain why I asked the above question, my fault.
it kinda went like this:
1. I looked at the item and thought “gosh, that’s unusual”. I’d never seen a revolving pot before.
2. I read Mark’s comment and went back to have another look at the colour and dirt - more as a learning opportunity, to see if I could ‘see’ it too.
3. When I looked at the mark, it exhibited ‘hollow line’ which, if the theory is correct, must date it to 1850-1920. I didn’t mention this because I know that lots of people do not set any store in the theory. Again, it was just me doing a bit of very amateurish investigation. I am in no way qualified to judge the accuracy of the theory, but I thought I’d chase it up. Just out of curiosity.
4. I went to my Allen’s and found a passage I vaguely remember from before: “until the appearance of the little peach bloom vase in 1995, I had never seen hollow line on any fake from the 20th century.”
5. When I combined both sets of information, I asked the above question... - “does this mean that this is a fake of a 19th century copy of a Qianlong piece?” Or words to that effect.
I don’t know if applied dirt or ‘hollow line’ indicate a deliberate attempt to deceive or whether these things just add to its appeal. I definitely agree that it is infinitely better than the mountains of plastic junk that’s out there, whatever it may or may not be.
I should’ve explained more fully to begin with. Apologies.
Nic
Elementary, my dear Watson 🙂 I like your investigators mind Nic. You could make a great detective.
The seller has added a few extra photo's which is interesting as you can now see how it was constructed. I have spent a little time searching for examples of revolving vases and can't find any old ones put together like this one. The old ones leave you scratching your head in wondering how they were made and are all of outstanding quality. In the new photo's the dirt does not seem quite as contrived so maybe it was not made as a fake as such, but maybe just a 20th/21st c novelty item for the decorator market.
Michael
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