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Dear All,
This seller seems to have some wonderful things. But are they the real McCoy ? Their descriptions rarely give an age or period indication. They also seem to have the same item listed multiply times but with different prices.
Thoughts please
Michael
Hmm... I see what you mean. All the items seem to be immaculate. What’s more confusing is that unlike obvious copies, the colours on most seem quite harmonious, but whether the colours are right for the period I don’t know.
this 100 butterflies vase I find quite interesting because Peter talks about these in one of his videos. He says the fakes are less organic, the butterflies look ‘stuck on’. This one certainly looks contrived? The symmetry isn’t normal for these?
Nic
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F332631506175
Interesting feedback, all recent activity seems to relate to clock parts.
I don't like the pattern around the base of the neck on the butterfly vase. It looks very messy, it should be beautiful, dainty, elegant - this isn't.
I often wonder how it is that the same item keeps re-appearing multiple times in searches. Something odd about that. I don't think I would buy any of these. That first item appears to have been available since Autumn 2017.
You can be sure that such impressive looking items, if not featured on the Bidamount newsletter, are certainly all fakes. I can't open the photos properly but these are typical of the high-end fakes of Qing porcelain that Peter is always warning people about in his videos.
the base colour and mark on that huge yellow thing look awful
tam
I was told by a seller that the items that appear multiple times have either been sponsored or boosted. In other words, the seller has paid eBay to publish their item multiple times in a given search so as to ‘hit’ the buyer’s eyes repeatedly.
Dont know if that is true.
Hi all:
If you watch Peter's recent video on Republican period porcelains, these items are clearly made yesterday according to the criteria he provides. The moon flask looks new and its colors are just wrong. As to the butterfly vase, the butterflies look stencilled on. Moon flasks in particular are always suspect.
Errol
Both items are clearly fakes. If you enlarge the picture of the yellow vase, the painting looks sterile and uniform, like done by a machine.
The butterfly vase should look elegant but doesn't, as has been observed here before. The brown rubbed off band is a desperate effort to make it look a bit older, but only makes it look ugly.
Why do fakers always produce large and rare vases? With more modest items they might possibly go unnoticed. No money forger would make a 500 EUR bill, they just make 20 or 50 EUR.
Birgit
Hi Shinigami
I think these kind of copies are produced for the domestic market , not necessarily to earn a huge premium but to appeal to people who want a qing like display piece in their home; they sell for a few hundred and maybe one thousand RMB in the shops of Jingdezhen - the people buying or selling them do not regard them as real - but then inevitably some of these big items find their way overseas and are sold as genuine and period .
tam
Dear All,
Tam is correct I did a search for Chinese department store Jingdezhen and came up with 100's of items. All quite nice and priced well under US$100. It is when they hit the secondary market listed with cleverly worded descriptions and inflated prices the problems start.
Michael
Hello Tam and Michael:
This type of thing is very worrying. I think Chinese items, particularly porcelains, offered for auction on eBay fall into four groups:
1. Good quality antiques sold by reputable and established sellers who either get the period correct or who to avoid misleading anyone suggest that the item is of a later period when they are uncertain. Unfortunately these don't account for the majority of items offered and some of these sellers seem to have withdrawn from eBay completely;
2. Antique items that are presented as belonging to earlier reigns than they actually belong to. These account for a large percentage of items on eBay;
3. Items from stores such as Michael and Tam refer to that are attractive and that find their way on to the Western market through eBay and through small auction houses. These items are most problematic when supposedly reputable eBay sellers mix them in with genuine antiques. In some cases the sellers are fooled themselves; in other cases the deception is deliberate;
4. Obvious fakes. Peter once compiled and published a list of eBay sellers all of whose items are fake and who presumably obtain them from stores such as Michael and Tam are referring to. It would be helpful if this list could be kept updated although that is not an easy thing to do.
This situation makes the collection of antique Chinese art very troublesome and causes a lot of anxiety for me personally. I'm very grateful for the service Peter provides on bidamount.com, but even there, as we have seen, fake items creep in occasionally. The other aspect of this problem is that dating of Chinese antiques is more of an art than a science. I suspect almost all of us own a couple of fakes. I find myself eyeing some of the items in my collection with suspicion from time to time and that is not a comfortable feeling to have! Lately I have cut back significantly on bidding and buying.
Errol
Couldn't they, or perhaps some of them, in fact be 20th ct? I've been going through this sellers listings from time to time and I noticed a vase very similar to one sold at johan.cn for a high price. This one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Superb-Chinese-Enamel-Famille-Rose-Elephant-Handle-Hu-Form-Porcelain-Vase/332378846418?hash=item4d6352b4d2:g:oaUAAOSwXvNZuhMQ
And also this one would probably be sought after by certain collectors even if it's 20th century. If if was period it would be worth a million or more. I think it was Irv Graham who had an article about these on his site. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Antique-Chinese-Qing-Coral-Dragon-Blue-and-White-Porcelain-Charger-Plate/302468277414?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3D0684968e72fa49fa839c43b1a62b1f42%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D302468277414%26itm%3D302468277414&_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060
Hello Corey:
When you ask about or consider 20th century items, I think it is important to distinguish between Republican period items which are often exquisite and late 2oth century items that tend to be mediocre. I really don't think that the Hu vase is from the Republican period. The art work in the panels is mediocre. The reddish color in the neck seems wrong for the Republican period, the yellow ground is too bright, the foot looks new and the mauve flowers are wrong. I think this vase is similar to the fake moon flask that Michael used to start this topic. Indeed, I think the Hu vase is of the 21st century rather than 20th century.
Regards,
Errol
This is the hu vase from johan.cn. And the yellow ground actually is less bright but you can also find republic period examples with a much brighter yellow tone, for example this one from Sotheby's. http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2015/chinese-art-hk0598/lot.536.html But the red color is also different like you say. It might be an idea however to email the seller and ask him questions. Just my two cents.
Seller ZERO DISATNCE seems to have an endless supply of fakes and copies..none that we've seen are authentic.
He's been on eBay for years and reported by us many times through the Escalated Reporting Program.
best, Peter
Peter
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