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Hi everyone,
I was looking at this plate and noticed that it has a few odd things about it and I wondered if anyone could explain them, please.
First, there is a kind of iridescent halo around the, rather worried-looking, bird and also around what looks to be a butterfly (maybe) on the inner edge of the upper left rim.
The second thing is that the lower part of the plate feels different. It feels as though the glaze has been removed, ie slightly rough compared to the rest of the surface.
Any ideas as to what may have caused these things to occur. Bad cleaning, perhaps?
Thank you!
Julia
ps Although the label is written in English, I am not sure what the first 2 lines mean. 😊
Hi Julia,
Does that say....Lautrec? It can’t be, can it? Maybe someone was trying to pass it off?
I thought is was Japanese at 1st look, but the dish is Chinese in shape, right? Of course, if its Lautrec (not saying it is 😋 ), it would have to have been a blank sent to France and painted there.
That halo is strange for sure. i don’t know what to make of it either.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
I have a famille rose early Qianlong plate that has haloes around some of the details. I'm sorry I don't have any photos of the haloes, but it is apparently the result of the interaction between the white glaze and some of the enamels. (The plate, along with its twin, is currently on the way to stepmother's house for Christmas or I'd take more photos.)
-Steve
The halo is caused by the chemicals in the glaze, like a flux used to adhere the enamel to the slip, that when fired create an iridescence around the enamel. It is an indicator of age, being found in Kangxi and Yongzhen enameled porcelains. Seems that that the halo effect mostly disappears by the Qianlong period, but I've seen it in a few 19th c pieces.
I believe your plate is Yongzheng based upon the design, and the use of gold gilt.
Regarding the variation in surface texture...try shining a black light. Your label indicates damage, so perhaps there are restorations effecting the surface texture.
Thanks, everyone. I did wonder if that was the "halo effect" but I thought it was only around blue. Really interesting to find out it isn't just that colour and to see it so clearly, thank you. I will check for further damage/restoration, too.
Todd, it does look like Lautrec, but this is definitely a chinese decorated plate so what does that mean? 🤔
Dear Julia,
Greeno is right, all the features of this very beautiful dish are typical for Yongzheng. It is a nice one!
It is not clear to me what you mean by "the lower part". I do not think that you are referring to the back, because it looks shining in the picture.
What did you mean?
Giovanni
Julia, I guess he could have owned it. Not entirely impossible. He was a fan of Japanese art (although this is Chinese). Do you remember where you found it? Paris, perhaps? The label could be provenance and condition. Although verification of this would be quite the task...
take it with a grain of salt
I think the 2nd line is “dish flat”....so a plate, as opposed to a bowl.
take it with a grain of salt
Todd, that was what I thought, only it sounded odd; an English speaker would say "flat dish." However, the reversal might well indicate this was written by a French person and I did buy it in France, at a sale of "the contents of a Manor house."
Giovanni, when I say the lower half seems rough, I mean the area on the front at the bottom as seen in the last picture.
The plate came in a lot of 4, I was outbid on some tiger plates I wanted so as I need to buy some things to "sell" (complex story) I went for these instead. They were loosely described as 18th c, I think a couple are Yongzheng - part of my reasoning for that included the use of brown which seems more frequent on plates from that era, does anyone think that is a fair point? Obviously, taken in conjunction with other features.
I appreciate the help and interest.
Julia
@julia Leave the sticker, Todd might be on to something as far as clues to provenance, which could be fun, as you say, a French person putting stickers on their items, noting that it was 'left' to them by Famille Lautrec relative or the plate was 'left' at a Avenue Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec bus stop. I like your plate and it has already provided an intriguing puzzle.
Thank you!
I will leave the sticker, Sharon. Who knows? 😊
I would say Qianlong around 1740, the bamboo is in the style you see on the pieces from the period of the Geldermalsen cargo , but a Yongzheng attribution is also possible.
I do have a it of a fetisj for sizes on plates. In general plates tended to become bigger in time. Standard Kangxi dinner plates were often between 20-22cm, Yongzheng 21.5 - 23cm. Qianlong 23cm+
My guess would be yours is is 23 or bigger.
As with all rules of thump on porcelain it is a mostly useless rule that i made up myself, but i turns out to be quite often helpfull.
Best wishes
Freek
Hi Freek,
I seem to recall it was smaller than the others, not much, but enough to be obvious. I will let you know.
Julia
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