The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Hello all, please bare with me here but this may answer a number of questions for me and others. It's concerning this vase being sold by Joanies. Hopefully, I can show this picture here.
Peter also referenced it on his weekly video.
Questions:
1) are all those iron dots/spots (not sure of the proper term), seen especially inside and on the base, because of the inferiority of the porcelain during this period or because they came to the surface over hundreds of years... or both?
2) do all luting lines look like this (photo 10) or are some of them smoothed out inside and glazed over?
3) what are those two glaze bumps at 1 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the outside of the rim (photo 6 & 7)? Is that glaze accumulation abnormal for this period?
Thank you for your thoughts.
If I hadn't heard Peter's opinion on this, I would have considered it a bit fishy. Way too many of those irons dots and I don't think the dragons are that well done. But I'm not at all an expert on blue and white, so I'm just trying to learn more as everybody else here.
~ Decorative Arts, Antiques and Accessories, at Mollari's ~ www.mollaris.com
I don’t think it’s Kangxi or 18th century I think it’s Ming. Just my thought I’m no expert but that glaze looks Late Ming but it’s hard to tell the period from end of Ming sometimes. It has a nice lut joint. I think the price it’s at is already indicating it’s something special.
The price could be due to the "Peter effect"?
Personally, I don't like this jar. I don't feel it is well-painted enough in the sense that it doesn't seem to flow eg the dragons lack spontaneity and the waves are so level.
The dragons don't look Ming to me; they look 18th c style but if so, I might be a bit surprised to see that base. I don't know enough to make a sound judgment, however, my feeling is like Michael's: there is something odd. That would stop me bidding.
As an aside, I find those blue dots interesting, the ones in the waves. I have seen them on other pieces, but are they meant to be something or just decorative?
I don't like it either. The body has a transitional look but the dragons look strange. That it's sold by Joanies adds to my doubts.
Birgit
@centralpapotty @iluvatar
Hi all -
And with all due respect to Peter;
Having looked very closely at the images, I would concur with Michael, Julia and Birgit …
The painting style and individual motif detailing are all very strange, as is the cobalt shading …
The dragons postures is based upon/attempting to copy that seen on early Ming pieces that continues, with some alterations, into the Qing. However, certain aspects, such as the neck/leg positioning/length, and some of the detailing seen on the heads, body scales, main/elbow hair, palms and talons on individual dragons are all wrong, as are aspects of the clouds/waves …
Certainly not Ming, even late, and not Kangxi or indeed 18thC. The technical aspects, mentioned by others, coupled with the above may indicate this is a ‘pastiche’, made to deceive …
Joanies, as mentioned by Birgit, has been discussed here before, and not in the most ‘glowing’ of terms!! …
Only my opinion, base upon the images, so ‘subjective’ as always.
It would need to be seen/handled very closely to determine authenticity, or other wise …
Stuart
Well if the price is going to be a Peter effect that’s going to be one expensive fake.
I looked at this jar before Peter's video recommendations.
The jar is not Kangxi nor is it 18th Century imo.
The way that the front facing fierce dragon is portrayed is totally wrong.
The dragon scales are hideously painted and in parts are simply blobs.
The base looks like it's artificially stained.
The interior looks like possible later 19th C.
Overall very suspicious listing from a dubious seller and I also think it's going to sell for a substantial amount of money given that these are both popular and fairly rare.
Mark
Another piece from the same auction, also recommended by Peter, is the pink Peranakan vase.
Peranakan or Nyonya ware is always colorful but never garish. In this vase the blue color simply doesn't fit. It should be a soft shade. And the sgraffito of the pink background is just too much - gilding the lily, as our friend Giovanni used to say. I personally think this vase is modern.
Birgit
I'm very curious about Stuart's remark about it being a pastiche, but made to deceive. Is this because of the attempt to make the bottom/base look older as well? For the more "honorable" type of pastiche, like Kangxi imitating Ming pieces, or 19th century Kangxi Revival pieces, the patterns and painting will look (or attempt to look) like what they're trying to copy, but the base will reflect characteristics of the maker's period - is this a correct assumption?
Wow, lots of interesting thoughts since bringing this up. For the blue & white "Kangxi/Ming" piece, I guess my first question is answered because it is thought to be an imitation therefore the iron spots are not because it's 300 or so years old. To me the form looks good and the foot... possibly for Ming as Brian mentioned. However, would they accept this painting quality or were only excellent ie. Imperial artists allowed? Would someone offer their opinions on my second and third questions about luting lines and the two glaze bumps or whatever they are on the rim?
@singingkettle
Hi -
The base characteristics, as mentioned by Mark@imperialfinegems is but one aspect, others including the overall painting style, motif detailing, cobalt application and shading, multiple iron- spots to the glaze surface (especially the interior), and the interior luting line appearance/finishing ...
The dragons shown on this guan have five-claws, which implies this guan was order and produced for the Imperial Court, most probably for the Emperor. The quality control of any object, in all medium, decorated with five- clawed dragons was exceptional high and very strictly controlled ...
This object does not come anywhere near such standards ...
As for the imitation/coping of previous wares, these were firstly produced in 'veneration' of a previous Emperor, but painting styles, cobalt/enamels tones and application of, glazes, body characteristics, trimming/finishing methods ext would, naturally, reflect the present time when produced ...
One must know all the characteristics of genuine originals, those produced later in veneration of, later copies of both, and then those made to decive ...
Stuart
@ming1449 oh man, I forgot about the five claw dragon rule and didn't even look at how many this one had. I saw it on another piece that wasn't well done or old but forgot to check on this one. I guess it would have been big trouble if someone smuggled this from the kiln.
Latest Post: Ming Wanli dish OK? Our newest member: Mae Naylor Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.