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Need help with this scholar plate

 
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 Charles Bryan
(@kirby13)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 704
19/07/2022 11:18 pm  

@shinigami 

@superox

@musicnus

Hi, All.  I just found this 9.5" plate today in Alaska.  The enameiing style looks alot like David's plate, as does the gritty back.  And it has the gold ornaments in the hair.  But the peacock seems like a more recent design to me.  Is this one also circa 1850?   

Thanks,

Charles

20220719 190230
20220719 190249

   
AL Boo, Julia, Shinigami and 2 people reacted
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
19/07/2022 11:46 pm  

In my opinion it's Tongzhi period. 

Mark 


   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4867
20/07/2022 1:07 am  

Mark is right. Early Tongzhi, a nice and unusual design, not yet stereotypical as they became later. 

Birgit


   
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 AL Boo
(@superox)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 118
20/07/2022 5:52 am  

@kirby13 

Hi Charles..

Please watch this video if you have not.  It gives quite a good history on the export ware.

 

Hope this helps...  as I am still learning myself...

 

 

Al 


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4524
20/07/2022 9:55 am  

Thanks, I enjoyed watching this again, you see new things everytime.


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
20/07/2022 1:25 pm  

Thank you, Al. That was very useful and very helpful with confirming the age but giving a new explanation of some plates, I own. 😊 


   
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 AL Boo
(@superox)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 118
20/07/2022 5:08 pm  

@sharonp happy to contribute something.... 


   
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 AL Boo
(@superox)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 118
20/07/2022 5:09 pm  

@julia cool! 😀 


   
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 Anonymous 13097
(@Anonymous 13097)
Reputable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 273
Topic starter 21/07/2022 12:12 pm  

Lots in great information for a guy like me with only ONE Famille Rose example.  I'm not used to all that COLOR.  Most of my collection is Yuan (from living in the Philippines)- and B&W from my time in Belgium.

David


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
21/07/2022 9:46 pm  

@musicnus I just want to add a couple more aspects to consider when dating.

Rose Medallion did not occur before 1850 (maybe 1845). It’s predecessor was Canton famille rose (1st & 2nd quarter 19th c) and Mandarin rose (late 18th c.).

Consequently, early rose medallion shares common traits with Canton Famille rose such as vibrant opaque enamels and close attention to rendering.

By the late 19th c., the enamels took on qualities found in Guangxu Famille rose, which was much more translucent and colors more muddy, and rendering was much more rushed.

I recommend you check out some museum examples of early rose medallion pieces dated to 1850… compare color and opacity of the enamels, then look at the rendering.

I think this will help with dating your piece.


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
21/07/2022 9:55 pm  

Here’s an example reported as c. 1850:

5A306816 16B3 4115 B716 73C381DB0429

Your plate:

39FAD256 4DE5 4C04 A4E4 007B32368161

Maybe it’s lighting to some degree, but I think you can see the blue and pink/red really pop on the 1850’s plate, while on yours the colors are dark.

 

 


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
21/07/2022 10:36 pm  

@shinigami Your plate is a beautiful example of canton Rose, correctly dated to Daoguang, but it is not rose medallion as David’s plate is.

The scrolling green vines differentiates it from your plate, and the beautiful color and rendering of your plate is far superior.

Look at the bats in the border of David’s plate …. They’re not consistent with any early or mid 19th c.


   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4867
22/07/2022 3:54 am  

@greeno107 What age would you suggest for David‘s plate?

Birgit


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
22/07/2022 5:00 am  

@shinigami If the colors are true to the photo, I would think 4th quarter of the 19th c.

If the dark color is merely a result of poor lighting, then 1850-1860. 

I have come across some examples of bats in pieces that claim to be from 1850-1860’s, but in each case, the blues and red/pinks are quite vibrant.


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
22/07/2022 5:34 am  

I’ve used my photo editing to play with the image.

As posted photo…

image

Photo edited image…

C66A805E E507 4FCF A1C6 D0388BF07A9E

If the plate actually looks like the second photo, then I certainly agree with a dating of 1850-60’s.


   
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