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I have been reading this entry originally posted by greeno107.
Whilst I am not prepared to engage in a argument on what is or is not required reading and or preparation in the area of jades.
I will however offer the following opinions on jades etc. Tim @Greeno107 is absolutely correct in his observations on the carving techniques/styles etc. You don't need to be a gemologist or dealer etc. You do however need a keen eye for details and a good library of reference information. Handling is absolutely required to learn more about jades. It takes years of experience to gain a small insight into jade collecting.
For the sake of discussion only I have the two examples of a carving. One is late Ming early Qing period 17/18th century. The other one is new. It's Russian jade btw.
Can you see the difference between the carving techniques and styling. Look at the detail therein.
Here is a excellent blog extract from www.bernsteinjadeart.com
He is a worldwide author of jades and a recognized expert on jades etc etc.
Here is another one for discussion. Is it period or new? I would like @avatar opinion on why etc etc. Along with @Greeno107 and of course anybody else who wishes to make constructive comments.
Regards,
Mark
@imperialfinegems Hi Mark!
Happy to respond to your quiz, but just to be clear, I have never objected to anyone challenging my ideas/comments. I’m just a bit tired of being called out personally.
Regarding your phoenixes,I think you’ve shared photos of them before, but I might be remembering incorrectly.
The soft/delicate carving of the more opaque jade looks to me to be 17/18th c. The bright white looks more like what the Russians try to sell as hetian jade, and from what I can see in the pics, there is a bit more rigidity to the piece.
However, I’m afraid the photos are not clear or close enough for my broken eyes.
The archaic piece looks nicely carved…. true little spiral carvings (not sure what they’re called) rather than machine made circles.
If I’m right or wrong on my observations with your jade quiz, I have to say that Ibfeel my point was missed.
My original post was only to emphasize that there was not a single piece of jade that made me wonder, ‘how did this poorly carved piece end up here?’, but there were several pieces that had colors, inclusions, and such that made me believe the quality of jade is secondary to carving. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry… just my impression from the sale, and my manner of writing may have come off too strong.
Your absolutely correct in your thoughts about the quality of the jade being secondary to the carving itself. Different periods had different access to jades as you already know. Style changed etc etc.
I posted the mandarin ducks (these are mine btw the Ming one) before but not the archaic plaque. I shall wait for further opinions on the archaic one before I post my opinion. Which incidentally is just my thoughts.
Archaic jades are a very difficult area. Even the top experts often disagree with what is or isn't. However, it's my submission that the one I posted has clear indications of a certain period.
You didn't come on strong at all in my view. Very constructive thoughs posted by you with regards to viewing the upcoming sale etc.
Perhaps I should have started a jade blog! 🤔
Regards,
Mark
@imperialfinegems Did you see the jade recumbent Phoenix in the sale? $20-30,000 estimate.
It is really much bigger than the photos and description lend credit.
Exactly my taste - think it’s the best piece in the sale for the money. I just think the estimate will be blown out of the water.
@imperialfinegems This is it… the photos don’t do justice.
Yes I saw that one. It's beautifully carved. I like the russet features. But buyers are very particular about colours and russet etc etc.
Its nicely carved and should do well. It's a decent size but I don't know if it will be blown out as you suggested. The jade market is very strange atm. Could be. Who knows!
There was a auction in Singapore a few days ago that a friend of mine asked me to help him with. Oddly most of the later pieces sold for crazy money. The one he was interested in sold for nothing and was incorrectly described. He got a magnificent Jin-Yuan or earlier (I haven't research other examples atm) finial for $600. Worth much more he paid for it imo.
Mark
@imperialfinegems Hi Mark!
Happy to respond to your quiz, but just to be clear, I have never objected to anyone challenging my ideas/comments. I’m just a bit tired of being called out personally.
Regarding your phoenixes,I think you’ve shared photos of them before, but I might be remembering incorrectly.
The soft/delicate carving of the more opaque jade looks to me to be 17/18th c. The bright white looks more like what the Russians try to sell as hetian jade, and from what I can see in the pics, there is a bit more rigidity to the piece.
However, I’m afraid the photos are not clear or close enough for my broken eyes.
The archaic piece looks nicely carved…. true little spiral carvings (not sure what they’re called) rather than machine made circles.
If I’m right or wrong on my observations with your jade quiz, I have to say that Ibfeel my point was missed.
My original post was only to emphasize that there was not a single piece of jade that made me wonder, ‘how did this poorly carved piece end up here?’, but there were several pieces that had colors, inclusions, and such that made me believe the quality of jade is secondary to carving. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry… just my impression from the sale, and my manner of writing may have come off too strong.
Hi greeno107,
Thank you for responding. 😊
The archaic plaque was sold on eBay a couple of days ago for about $100.
Its a new copy. Machine sculpted that has then been heavily polished. The chipping on either side along with the stuttering incised lines indicate modern attribute.
Mark
@imperialfinegems The phoenix hammered at $19,000....I should have bid. Oh well.
One of the other pieces I photographed was the yellow chrysanthemum bowl with Yongzheng mark and ‘probably’ of the period.
Just hammered at $350,000!
I’m going to dig out my unmarked clair de lune bowl and post photos in a new thread of both foot rims for comparison.
I had a seventy-one Pinto that color, I loved that little car and was happily unaware of it being an incendiary device. Surely the color is off on the photograph, as my car paint color was called bright lime.
Congratulations on selling your tray above the high estimate!
@greeno107 I was having trouble with the link, so I went to the reference case to view the bowl, as you saw it up close and personal, is that the true color of the bowl? Looking forward to your post of the bases and ditto to William's congratulations.
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