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Hello All
Below are my two Ming Flying Horses and Clouds decorated wine cups that are similar to one in the Sir Percival David collection in the British Museum. These cups are tiny, just 6mm wide and 4mm tall. They are extremely thinly potted, just 1.5mm thick.
The link to the similar cup in the British Museum is,
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_PDF-B-691
I have been informed that when Sir Percival David purchased the cup from George Eumorfopoulos in the 1950's it was thought that it was an early Ming piece, but due to excavations in Jingdezhen in the last ten years providing more information it is now dated as a 16th century piece.
My cup shown on the left hand side seems to be earlier than my other cup and perhaps it may have been made during the second half of the 15th century, but it is doubtful if I will ever be able to confirm this. Hence the reason for my post, as I was wondering if anybody has come across a similar cup which may throw more light on the dating of these tiny cups.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Thank you John.
Both were excavated in Indonesia, but I purchased them from two different dealers and I love the simplicity of the stylised horses.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy -
For comparison:-
The ‘celestial/mythical/flying horse’ motif became very popular during the mid 15thC Zhengtong/Jingtai and Tianshun periods, usually seen on the shoulders of guan and meipings enclosed by clouds amidst raging waves/water - image 1/2:- one of a pair of meiping vases dated to Zhengtong period excavated from the tomb of Jingjiang Prince Zhu Jingfu and his wife in Guilin in 1972 ...
This continued into the Chenghua period where both Imperial blue and white and doucai examples are known - images 3/4, a stembowl and 5, a small jar, both attributed to Chenghua period in the Palace Museum, Gugong, Beijing ...
By the Hongzhi and Zhengde periods the minyao or private were also using this design, mostly as a central motif on dishes in Hongzhi, or to the exterior of bowls/cups during Zhengde although it is occasionally seen on other - image 6, bowl attributed to Zhengde period, Jingdezhen Ceramic Museum Coll ...
The painting style on your two cups is similar, although not identical, to the JDZ museum bowl, so a similar dating to Zhengde seems appropriate - although a late 15th attribution cannot be ruled out ...
Very nice to have a pair ...
Stuart
Hello Stuart
Thank you for this information.
I do agree with you that the shade of the glaze and cobalt on my cup shown on the right hand side seems to match closely to the Zhengde example. My other cup, however, seem to me may be older when I compare the shade of the glaze and cobalt with a Tianshun / Chenghua period bowl that I have. I have attached a photograph of each side by side below and some closeup photographs of the horses on this cup.
Although it would be nice to be more certain about the dating of my cups, the main thing is that I really enjoy owning them, partly due to the fact that I have similar cups to one in the David collection, but mainly due to them being so delicately potted, and apart from a small chip and faint hairline on the cup on the right hand side, yet they have survived for so long.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy -
Thank you for the additional images, most helpful ...
Having trolled through my database, I came across these two pieces that may be of interest for comparison:-
1/2/3:- An small inkstone decorated with celestial/flying creatures, one of which may be a horse, and buddhist lions amongst flames/possibly clouds, recovered from a tomb in 1985. Eight character inscription to base, the first four reading ‘Tian Shun third year’, so dated to 1459. Now in the collection of the Nanchang County Museum ...
4/5:- A warming bowl, exterior decorated with three friends of winter, interior with central flying fish/cavetto with flying horses above waves and amongst clouds/flames. Attributed to late Tianshun/Chenghua, so 1457-87, and now in the collection of the Art Museum, Chinese University of Hong Kong ...
The horses/flames on you cup bare a strong resemblance to that seen on the inkstone, so you may well be correct in a Tianshun or Chunghua attribution ...
As mentioned, the main thing is that you find great pleasure and enjoyment from owing these ...
Stuart
Hi Jeremy -
My pleasure, but a small mistake and therefore correction needed ...
The first four characters of the inkstone inscription reads ‘Tian Shun 3 nian’, so ‘Tian shun three made’, and not ‘third year’, although this still acquits to 1459 ...
Stuart
Hello Stuart
Thank you for the correction, but as I unable to read Chinese I would never have known any different if you had not mentioned this.
Quite a lot of posts on the forum are about 'export ceramics' of the Qing period, but my humble tiny cups are examples of export ware from an earlier period and perhaps they may have not survived if they weren't excavated pieces. I have also been able to purchase another early export minyao tiny wine cup of a different design and is very similar to a cup in the British Museum collection which is dated to the second half of the 15th century.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_2010-3007-31
Needless to say, I am fascinated with such tiny cups from the Ming period.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Hello John
I guess that most collectors also hope to find one of those, but I think that I will have to be content knowing that Sir Percival David was excited enough to add a similar humble cup to that of my flying horse cups alongside his Chenghua chicken cup and that both are on display near each other.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_PDF-A-748
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Thank you Stuart.
Below are photographs of my cup. Although it has a fault in the glaze on the inside that doesn't bother me. My Tianshun / Chenghua period bowl has two characters on the inside which I think may be a Fu mark and one of these is the same as in my cup.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy -
Thank you for the additional images, most helpful ...
The main motif depicted may represent the luminous pearl of Cintamani, which shows the stylistic legacy of the Mongol Yuan dynasty ...
Such Yuan dynasty motifs became very popular in the mid 15th century, when objects commissioned for Princely/elite patronage and many private kilns wares look back and drew inspiration from Yuan designs ...
Base on the painting style I would, tentatively, attribute this to piece to Tianshun/Chenghua periods - so 1457-87 ...
A word of caution:-
The dealer you acquired this from is well known to mix authentic/genuine pieces with yesterday/fake - best tread carefully ...
Stuart
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