Dear Forum members,

Peter is absolutely right to draw attention to this vase as being a fake.

I had also noted it, and noted also on the basis of descriptions of some of the other items listed by this particular UK seller, ecliptic_art (whose real name is Patricia Hannam, who is based in Liphook in Hampshire), that she appears to have little basis for judgement in issues concerning antique Chinese ceramics, and that she is, in effect, capitalising on the lack of knowledge of some eBay bidders. I suppose it could be said in her defence that, strictly speaking, her listing's description does not claim the item to be an actual Kangxi yen yen vase; nevertheless, it comes pretty close to giving that impression. (This is something I've noticed about the way some of the descriptions served up by Joanies House of Treasures operate, too.)

There are a lot of these 'Kangxi' knock-offs on the market of late, and this is one of them. Buyers beware. Beware too of this seller generally, who, it has to be said, also sometimes lists authentic items (for instance, there's a Daoguang famille rose item that she currently has up that could well be correct). The effect of such mixing of the authentic and inauthentic is particularly insidious, I'm afraid.

Regards,

Alan

Dear Forum members,

Sorry, I need to correct my previous posting on this fake vase.

The seller DOES in fact say it is 'prob' (presumably 'probably') Kangxi, and she also says the vase is 'in good antique condition'. Fake news, one might say, and utter rubbish.

This vase is no more antique than I am (a few more years still need to elapse before I can qualify for that distinction).

Alan

Thank you Peter for giving us a chance to learn! For me there are mainly two points that give the vase away as a fake: the faces of the people which don't look Kangxi and the feet of the dragon which look stencilled. The blue color also looks off but this might be to the white balance. The foot is not so bad, reminds me of my own Kangxi vase (which I hope is no fake).

Hi everyone and thank you peter for the advice.  I had bid on that vase up to 2200 or something, glad I did not decide to follow up the bidders.  My ebay handle in case anyone missed it is megadeuce77, but I dont sell much, the wife sells some things she finds at the flea market, but I but 90 percent of the time.  I should sell a little more to pare the collection down a little but have not done so yet.  I did want to sell the enamel box because of the carving adorning it, not a big fan of that practice, needless killing of animals for their parts that is.  Anyway it fooled me also.  I cant see what you see yet as hard as I try other than it's a bit stiff..  So if you ever see me bidding on a fake please get in touch and let me know, thanks in advance.

joe carazola

Hi and I am back for a quick thought, I know we have a forum like this one where we can get guidance about fakes getting top dollar and people losing their money to fraudsters, but what about if we made a facebook page for fakes on ebay today?  That is how ebay gets everyone, no one is allowed to talk to each other and if you try and leave an email or phone number you can get penalized or booted from ebay.  I'm sure they would not like that at all because they would lose thousands right away and millions over time.  Just a thought.  If the page were created, I am sure they would try and take it down somehow.  thanks.

joe carazola

Dear Forum members, 

And while we're about it, here are two others from this same seller that Peter didn't mention.

I strongly recommend you also steer well clear of the 'Chinese blue and white porcelain clobbered vase' ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/large-chinese-blue-and-white-porcelain-clobbered-vase-kangxi-khang-shi-marks/112856935169?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649), along with the 'fine Chinese sang de bouef ox blood monochrome dish plate bearing Yongzheng mark' ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/fine-chinese-sang-de-bouef-ox-blood-monochrome-dish-plate-bearing-yongzheng-mark/112854258494?hash=item1a46a3533e:g:I4MAAOSwrU5aoA1L). The fact that sang de bouef is misspelled there in the listing is the least of the problems.

There are doubtless one or two other dubious lots that ecliptic_art is currently offering, but I've not time to weed them all out now. This particular pair that I'm warning folks against deserve special mention because at the time of typing this, they are doing pretty well already.

Also, Joe, we wouldn't be able to see it was you who was bidding because we wouldn't be able to read your handle from the bidders' list. Names there are encrypted. If they weren't, I'd be only too happy to help out as you suggest. So do be careful, and thank goodness, you didn't continue bidding on the fake Kangxi vase we've been discussing in this thread. Until you have found your feet, a good plan might be to limit your buying to sellers with a very solid track record for selling the real thing. There are various ones that qualify in this respect, but just popping into my head right now is Qing period. I've never known him to sell any dodgy stuff whatsoever.

Alan

Well it sold for $2,769 US, slightly lower than a couple days ago due to currency fluctuations for Pounds to Dollars. Regardless, I feel badly for the buyer. 

Peter 

it's a shame but in a way part of the education process. Quite an expensive education and they should be covered by eBay. I thought the red and blue dragon vase wasn't a bad fake

Hopefully, the person will realize it's a fake and send it back.  No matter what the sellers say about all sales being final and not accepting returns if the item is not as described, it can be returned 100% of the time. 

This same seller, however, has a nice 18th C. bowl, that looks fine. 

Best Peter

What is even more worrying is that Alan mentioned that the seller is Patricia Hannam because I recognise at least one of the items that was sold from Hanhams Auction House in Hampshire only 2 weeks ago.

Just a co-incidence ???

Hi all.

The vase has been re-listed.

The ebay seller is located in Liphook, 10 miles from Hannam's auctioneers.

I once put some items into a a UK regional auction house. Come auction day I sat at home and watched them sell via an online bidding platform. Four weeks later I received a cheque and itinerary of the sales results by post. To my surprise 4 of the items I had sold had were not on the itinerary and I had received no payment for them. After contacting the auction house I was told that the items were not paid for. Fine. I would pick them up at a later date. Two weeks later I find them on ebay. I ring the auction house. They tell me that the items had gone through their general sale by mistake that weekend. I ask how much they sold for and it was an absolute pittance. We're talking about a tenth of the original auction results 6 weeks before. I then do a bit of digging and find out that the ebay shop was run by the auction house. The owner of the auction house pleaded ignorance and told me that upon walking into the office of his oriental specialist, my items were sat on his desk. 

There are a couple of UK auction houses that I would be very very careful with.

Many auction houses here have also stopped accepting credit card payments. Bank transfer only, which means it is impossible to get your money back.

As Peter always says, be careful out there.

J

Hi James,

this is really bad. They should at least have asked you before selling the things at Ebay.

I have also made bad experience with a local auction house. I was a customer for years and decided to let them sell some minor items for me. Some were sold, some were not, so I went there after the auction to pick up the unsold pieces and hopefully some money. The fees for listing my items in the catalogue and taking pictures were so high that I ended up paying 60 € instead of earning something. Maybe that is common practice with auction houses and I should have asked before... beginner's mistake.

However some years after I got my revenge when the auction house offered a "19th century book shaped box" which I won for 700 € and it turned out to be a Qianlong Leshantang Box in perfect condition which are usually dealt with for five-digit prices. ? 

Hi Shinigami.

Sorry, not sure I explained myself properly. After my items weren't paid for in the original sale they went into a small general weekly sale held offline in their saleroom. The auction house then bought my items for themselves (very cheaply) and then went on to sell them on their own ebay site, keeping the money (and profit) for themselves. 

Am glad you got your revenge!

Someone should report these transactions to the UK Gov't division which handles permitting and licensing for UK Auctioneers.

I have an auctioneers license here in the US, if we did this kind of thing and it was reported, the State Auction Licensing Board would down our throats for documents and doing interviews in a day or two.  A few years ago, an auction house near here got into a jam, they called in the FBI, everyone got in big trouble.  Some states have no licensing requirements (many in fact), but here in Massachusetts they do and they also require a Bond. 

Best Peter