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It's described as Kutani by the source.
Definitely Japanese. Arita fuku 'happiness' mark. Circa late Meiji through to Taoshi. So in my opinion 1900s-1920's.
Mark
Hi Cory,
It is Japanese but I would expect to see spur marks if it were that old, depending on the size. How big is it?
Julia
Sorry Mark, we posted at the same time. My gut feeling is early 20th c, too. 😊
Hi Julia,
We are all posting at the same time. ⌚🤣
I think based on the pictures and the plastic stand it's probably small.
When you see that blue circle so close to the footing it is almost always Japanese porcelain. Chinese as you know is more centered.
Mark
It's 27cm across.
😀 😎 If this is small, it may be a bit later. It reminds me a bit of some igezara dishes I had. Mine had chenghua marks, but the central decoration was much tidier, more precise and they had a more pronounced piecrust rim.
27cm would be medium rather than small according to my own calculations. But it's my mistake with the Edo period dating. It's not dtaed in the description provided by the source.
But I actually do believe the plate is pre- meiji now when I've done some searches with google. I found several plates with the same brown foliate rims and slightly different fuku marks from the Arita kilns but most of the described as kakiemon rather than kutani. https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.52.html/2018/japanese-l18221 https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/fine-japanese-art-2/a-kakiemon-style-dish-fuku-mark-edo-period-late-2 https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/art-japan-online/blue-white-kakiemon-style-lobed-dish-58/63957
Sorry Corey, I didn't see you had posted when I responded. Mark is right, we really are all posting at the same time, today! Of course, 27 cms is an average size.
I still think early 20th century. Please compare the difference in quality of this and the 2 you have shared (both beautiful examples) but most importantly, see how many spur marks there are on similarly sized examples from an earlier period.
I shared three examples. Only the one from Christie's has spur marks. Most of the plates of similar shape and size dating to the Edo period I can find doesn't have spur marks. I see what you mean with difference in quality but I would have guessed that this would indicate an early dating, especially with the cracks which are probably firing faults and the 'rust spots' at the base, (if that's what they are) which would have formed over time. But unfortunately I don't know that much about Japanese ceramics.
There's another plate available (from a different source) that also has a foliate shape and the fuku mark. This one is described as ko-imari and dated to the Edo period. Better quality of porcelain, finer cobalt blue color, spur mark at the base and also with a moulded or incised decoration. Very nice. 31cm across.
I'll definately branch into Japanese ceramics and works of art soon. Almost can't wait. Fortunately a Covid-19 vaccine is soon available ...
Hi All,
Something strange about the plate posted by Corey. The Kuchibeni or lipstick rim looks like it was applied by a drunken sailor or maybe added later to try and make the plate something it is not. It is interesting that the decoration around the the rim of the plate is divided into two half's white and blue at the top and blue and white at the bottom think that is more of a Chinese thing, I stress the think with that comment. The exaggerated twists and loops of the pine tree seem a bit over the top. If it was Edo at 27cm you would expect more than one spur mark and if Meiji at least one most likely in the center of the mark. Can't save the photo's and enlarge them with photo editor to see if there are spur marks. Seems Corey has found another item that is a bit of a mystery.
Michael
Corey, the Sothebys one says it has six spur marks. The first one is the only one of the 4 that doesn't as far as I can see, but like Michael, I can't enlarge it to see if it has one in the centre. If it does, it may be a tiny bit older, but I am thinking maybe 10 years.
Micheal you are right, that is a very odd tree. I didn't really notice because I was too busy thinking how fat the bird is, but taking both together, it is definitely odd,. I quite like the border, but the thing that looked Chinese to me was the foot rim with those tramlines (or maybe that is just dirt). That was something else that made me wonder if it was later.
It is interesting too, how controlled the painting on the border and outside are compared to the centre. I am going to have to look at this on a proper screen. I am intrigued.
My mistake again. All the examples I posted have spur marks. I think I did find some without though. I agree it does look odd when compared to the similar plates dating to the Edo period I can find but I still think it's earlier than Meiji but I'm not sure. I guess I'll have to research more if I want to be certain. But no need to worry as I won't bid on it.
It looks odd because you have posted quality kakiemon (or in the style of) porcelain as a comparison. The one you are looking (first post) is clearly not!
Ko-imari example you cited in your later post (not the christies example) would have to examined more closely. I don't like the way the spur marks are done/portrayed. These are being reproduced today in stunning quality.
Mark
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