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Hello Everybody,
As stated above... I am not really sure about where this Vase comes from or how old it might be,. So maybe you could share your thoughts with me!
I have bought this Vase from an older couple at an antiques market. They were selling off the inherited Stuff from her Grandmother. They did not know where the vase would come from or how old it would be. The older Lady only remebered this vase to have always been in her mothers house. Non the less When I first saw the vase I immediatly thought it to be a Ding Kiln Vase because of the attached neck and the brown /persimmon glaze.
But since I am not yet an expert, it would be very helpfull if you could give me some input on the vase and share your knowledge, I'd appreciate it!
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Is this the same vase as posted on the asian art forum last year ? (I can't tell but they are certainly very similar).
I think it has a very interesting glaze, but the likelihood is that it's a copy. I have never seen a real ding ware vase, but the shape does not look very chinese, and the unglazed footrim is scratched (why , I don't know ) and unworn.
tam
I remember that one too being posted at the asian art forum, where I commented myself that it would be persimmon glazed yaozhou ware and not ding ware. If it was ding ware the paste would be pure white. I actually like the base of your vase. A quick search with google images revealed this example from Christie' with comparable base.
And at this example from Sothebys you can see a caramel tone light brown glazed area on the footring similar to that found on the base of your vase.
http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2016/04/13/33661586.html
If it's a repro, then at least it's rather well made in my opinion. Show it to an auction house like bonhams or nagel. Maybe they will be able to tell you if it's a real one or if it would be worthwhile to have it TL-tested. Anyone here with a better suggestion? We would like to see some succes-stories.
Good links , thx Corey. Interestingly the Christies ' vase also has scratch or cut marks on the footrim.
It could be an effect of the photography, but the glaze on both the auctioned ones looks much more matte than on the OP's vase , which is more shiny (?)
tam
Surely far from being Ding ware and I will be really surprised if it is Chinese, never seen that form. I don't think it is an ancient ware.
Giovanni
Yes it is the same Vase... I posted it here again because I can't find out anything about it and in the Asianart forum only few replies where not very helpfull.
with Best Regards...
Carsten
I have also paid 20$ on Gotheborg.com for an expertise on the Vase...
J.S. Nilsson wrote to me:
Thank you for sharing your interesting vase. It is very unusual and I can see that you have already considered most of the options.
What bothers me most is the shape that is old in general terms but does not fit into any of the Chinese periods that the glaze seems to fit.
The charm by buying difficult wares is the discussions they ensure and I don’t see any simple answer on this.
What the base suggests is in fact a brown Ding, but since they are extremely rare there are not that much to comnpare with and in that case, I would have expected the shape to be more fluid and stronger in the same time.
One other possibility would be a Japanese copy or studio piece, in which case I would have expected it to be signed.
Then, we have the ever present possibility of a Chinese later version.
So I thought maybe here someone knows more...
with Best Regards...
Carsten
There is also the possibility of Cizhou ware as these two links suggests.
http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2015/11/30/33003958.html
http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2015/11/30/33003958.html
I never considered the shape of your vase but I've seen the special neck part attachment on other early pieces like on this vase fro the Jin dynasty (item number four down from the top).
https://alaintruong2014.wordpress.com/tag/jin-dynasty/
Try to see if another early vase with in a similar shape.
Good luck at least.
Thank you...
The special neck is not the only thing looking alike... I think the shape of the Vase looks similar too.
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Sorry but I can't really understand why you both say that the shape is similar. Similar is referred to the whole shape, while here it is completely different, I do not see similarity.
Giovanni
The similarities are the attached neck and also the shape of the body leading from a narrowed foot upwards into a broader apple like silhoutte...
But yes strictly seen you are right @clayandbrush
with Best Regards...
Carsten
Nothing to do with Chinese ceramics. Design, glaze and body are wrong for Ding kiln or other kilns.
WBR
Xin
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
I really like this vase, but I am inclined to agree with Xin. I don't see the glaze as being the same as the items it is being compared with. It is not as matt and seems to have almost a hare's fur quality in some photos. Is it crackled, too? The pitting, like little craters, is interesting.
Could it be late 19th century, possibly English or American, redware or treacle-glaze?
Julia
The glaze is crackled as it is clearly seen on some of the photographs. Hare's fur glaze is a good comparison of the russet glaze running over the mushroom colored glaze thus creating a veiled effect. It would have been awesome if Xin would have explained us what aspects of the glaze is wrong. I also made a comparison of the neck attachment only and not with the shape as Giovanni implemented. But Detuned is right that the body of the vase is similar to the body of the vase of the Jin dynasty in the link I posted. Only the neck part and the foot is different.
Dear Corey and Detuned,
I said since the beginning that it is not Chinese because of the form (shape). I did not mention the glaze, which too is not Jian nor persimmon because it was useless, if the shape is not correct for Chinese ware, it is not Chinese, that’s it.
It is not matter of being the shape a bit off, as it could happen on fake items, the matter is that it is not Chinese.
At that point it makes no sense to say that the attachment of the neck is similar to that of a particular item, it is the same as saying that it could be because it is round.
I repeated this many times; it is useless to concentrate on a detail that could be good. If one detail is off, the whole piece is off.
Giovanni
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