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Hi all,
Just want to share my unusual Chinese export plate! It came from the same collection as that huge platter I shared, but this one is undoubtedly Yongzheng period. The porcelain is almost egg-shell like, and is 9" wide. Featuring a great en grisaille and rouge de fer alternating border. Without a doubt, the most beautiful piece in my collection, completely unrelated to ships/captains. It might be the reason I start collecting general export... I have seen two others, but it's not discussed in any of my books. Does anyone know where I can find out more about this pattern?
Kind regards,
John
Hi John,
A most delightful looking grisalle plate and from the yongzheng period.
Unfortunately I know little about them or history etc.
But yours is one of the finest I have seen.
Mark
PS: perhaps reach out to Nicolas. He has a few on his website etc. With excellent write-up.
Hi Mark,
Thank you for the kind words! It is superb, with relatively little wear and no damage - so surprising considering its thinness. It is the only piece in my collection that I feel afraid to handle because of how delicate it feels.
Thank you too for mentioning Nicolas. I actually spoke to him at length before in bidding on this one - we exchange emails very often. He's been a wonder to help build my collection for both his willingness to teach and his offerings, and has helped me learn about export porcelain very quickly. I wasn't able to find this pattern on his website - could you show the link that you read?
Kind regards,
John
It’s a nice Plate but I think that it is later,Qianlong.
I can’t see rouge de fer in the image.
Vic
Thank you Vic,
I think I have to disagree. I haven't seen Qianlong plates with such a low mass. Another 9" Qianlong plate I have is 380g, whereas this one is 265g. Also, for rouge de fer, I was referring to the outer border and the inner cavetto border with a hexagonal diaper pattern and flowers. Perhaps it was a mischaracterization of it? I think the four varying border decorations are typical of the early 18th century rather than later.
Kind regards,
John
After typing that, I suppose the low sample size of Qianlong export plates I've handled renders my initial mass point moot. I am limited by the plates I have.
Hi John,
Did Nicolas see your plate and if so did he think it was Yongzheng or perhaps a little later?
Mark
Hi Mark,
He didn't comment on age, just quality. I had a very specific question when I reached out to him about it, and it was to check the Spanish Armorial book for discussion on it since I hadn't ordered it yet (found here: https://www.galerienicolasfournery.com/publication/chinese-armorial-porcelain-for-spain/). My memory might be wrong, but I bid on this plate because I think it's related to a Spanish colonial governor of the Philippines, but I can't remember for the life of me where I saw that write-up. It wasn't in the armorial book, unfortunately, but I am working on getting some more books that might discuss it. I am a bit shy to ask about the age on it without an answer on this Philippines market tie since he was going to bid on it and chose not to bid against me on the plate.
John
Rouge de fer,sometimes called Milk and Blood.
Iron Oxide,usually with gilt highlights.
The flowers on your plate appear European in style as does the grisaille tied bouquet border.
Your Plate is a very unique decorative style and most attractive.
Thank you very much, Vic. In that case, the two borders would likely qualify as a rouge de fer border.
I've just now checked the Chinese Armorial Porcelain book to find examples of other rouge de fer borders, and this one came up:
Displaying the arms of Wyatt-Edgell, this is classified under the border decoration, Rouge de Fer and Gold, and is dated 1730, and a second Staffordshire service later ordered by a son in 1815 of identical decoration. Relevant quote in part reads: "The piece of the service illustrated is an unmarked Staffordshire plate of c. 1815, painted with a border design taken from an earlier Chinese service of c. 1730 (see second illustration), made for the same family. Whether there was ever a Chinese original for this service seems doubtful, but the design link is worthy of mention here."
Perhaps this dates it to late Yongzheng? It is interesting that this border seems to be unique from the write-up, but on my plate there are the en grisaille borders in between.
A beautiful plate. Is the back side blackened or is it just a shadow in the picture?
Birgit
Hi Birgit,
Thank you! No, the back side is normal, not blackened. I like to turn the plate as I keep my phone stationary, so the angle of the plate on the stand always makes the back photo wonky. Here is a normal photo of the back:
Kind regards,
John
I was just able to buy a matched plate to this one, so I'll have an assembled pair soon!
I am in love with this design. The delicacy of the porcelain and the detail of the flowers and multiple varying borders really reminded me of the Yongzheng rubyback eggshell porcelain pieces. Of course, these ones aren't as well done as the Christies pair, but it turns out they did make this pattern with rubybacks and a central gilt ground:
@bartholin Congratulations, don't forget to study, nose to the grind stone, light at the end of the tunnel and all that, it is very pretty. Sharon
@sharonp Thank you, Sharon! 🤣 I haven't forgotten, it is a faculty retreat this week, so I have a very light load. Very much why I post in waves and tend to disappear every now and then. It was a much-needed respite.
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