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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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sally Owens
 sally Owens
(@tukfrump)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 202
Topic starter 05/03/2022 1:57 pm  

One of these bowls sold for $$22,000(auction) and 2 weeks later the same seller offered the other for $179 BIN. Why?

cheers

sally

7389499E 7673 4F0F BDA8 C805FF86B968
9EA7F5E1 36D0 4D4A 9358 CD48D2B89FDD
B1C84EE2 2DDC 4854 AF90 14BD2CCFEAD0
EA610182 CAD9 4B09 97DB 88B5E6840C83

 


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 128
06/03/2022 3:09 am  

Hi; the blue grounded one should be way earlier; the other one ( turquoise ground ) is at best late qing in my eyes - ( without considering the sealmarks ).

Wich one went higher ? If it was the blue; i would state because of the age.


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
06/03/2022 3:15 am  

I shall have to look on a big screen later, but the enamelling on the one with the blue roundels looks older and better quality. 


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 128
06/03/2022 6:29 am  

In comparison to the turquoise bowl with the red medallions, look at that similar recent jar of the 1920 - 1950 you will see how careful the filling was done on that. The turquoise bowl is made careless, a "look alike" only; at first glance. ( even the wiring is executed badly )

20220306 120531
20220306 120619

 

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by Christian Stopperich

   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
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06/03/2022 7:37 am  

I agree the enameling is poor on the one with the red roundels. I think it's 20th c.  The other one looks much older. I can't read that type of mark, how was it described?  I assume that is the expensive one?  


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
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06/03/2022 7:54 am  

 archaic-scribbled-marks are not my field of knowledge likewise.


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
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Posts: 128
06/03/2022 8:30 am  

The blue-medallion bowl is what i would spend money for regardless of the sealmark; the metal work ( upper border ) isn´t simply part of the cast, it is sculpted and refined by hand it seems. The colors and the surface structure of the enamels are correct for early to mid qing ( at least ) .

This post was modified 3 years ago 2 times by Christian Stopperich

   
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gfhandel
 gfhandel
(@gfhandel)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1424
06/03/2022 11:33 am  

@dante 

Archsic mark found on bronzes:

“May My Descendants Treasure This”

George


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
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06/03/2022 11:54 am  

@gfhandel Thank you. Is there perhaps a ( latin not chinese ) term or shorter name for that mark to look it up ( time periode of use etc.) ?


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 128
06/03/2022 12:23 pm  

Okay, found it by the sentence in the end; thanks again.

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2022/23466/3.10-WZhou_Bronzes-2010.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

So it is archaic not archaistic. ( didn´t know that )

This post was modified 3 years ago by Christian Stopperich

   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
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06/03/2022 1:03 pm  

it is mentioned under "# 15 Yu Ding"


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7254
06/03/2022 1:19 pm  

Interesting reference book, thanks, I will try to look more at that later.

I really like that inscription, but I find that archaic script so hard to decipher, there is no way I would ever have worked it out. I tried to use a kind of online dictionary but there were so many characters that I gave up.  Much easier to have George tell us. 😊 

I agree with your dating of that item, I was thinking 18th c. Its a very nice piece and I am not surprised it sold well - that is still assuming that we have this the correct way round!


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
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06/03/2022 1:33 pm  

 Yes, i think we are right - the reference book by the way is for us only useful in terms of finding out, if that inscription / phrase was known in the late Ming to mid Qing - it proved it should have been and NO, no chance to find out about that meaning of the sealmark /deciphering it on my side ( on my own ) too.

 


   
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Christian Stopperich
 Christian Stopperich
(@dante)
Estimable Member
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06/03/2022 1:43 pm  

One would like to have a proper collection of pictures of the marks on the pieces ( of periode ) together with their translation by the way... 


   
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sally Owens
 sally Owens
(@tukfrump)
Reputable Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 202
Topic starter 06/03/2022 3:14 pm  

Here’s the blue one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-Cloisonne-Altar-or-Offering-Bowl-Marked-/334279054683?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


   
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