I swear I'm not drunk...my typing and my auto-correct are working against me. 

@greeno107 

Since I adore Classical Chinese Landscape paintings and have studied the subject for some time. Here is my take.

The Western art market is all about the artist name. People will pay for just a name on an ugly painting. Whereas most classical Asian landscapes are beautifully done by anonymous or unknown everyday artists who excel in classical style. It’s these beauties done with style that I hunt for, not hunting for an artists’s name.
 And by the way, I find the best authentic landscapes done in the Chinese classical style are available from Japan. Genuine 19th century landscapes are found in numbers in the Japanese market. They treasured and held on to their antiques. In fact. I will never buy from the China market which is loaded with fakes.

So save your money and buy something you really like from other sources. All my opinion of course.

George

I totally agree with you about the potential in this area to expand. I think in part it is due to people not being able to assess quality or identify the artist and therefore lacking confidence to collect them. Also it means it is very possible to find good or great paintings anywhere Asian things turn up. More people know about porcelain and are out looking for it, but asian paintings are less collected by the average picker from what I've seen. Opportunities abound!

I have this scroll I found in an estate sale it was $30 bucks the estate was full of Asian antiques I wasn’t the first to handle it the first Chinese lady grabbed it and threw it onto the floor. I picked it up and here is my fault I didn’t have a clue if it was Chinese or Japanese if the water damage was a big issue I only purchased it because it had a ivory pole. To this day I have no ideal if this is worth the $30 bucks.

@lotusblack Nice! That one appears to be Japanese. Japanese literati paintings are sometimes tricky to differentiate with Chinese, but you have the thousand year old turtle on the head of Fukufojuku, the god of long life.

@greeno107 thanks for the info. I also bought these two framed paintings for $10 each I haven’t done much research but the frames are worth that alone. 

@lotusblack 19th c. Canton export paintings...called pith paitings.  Those looks like nicely done scenes...likely worth $300-500 each depending on how you sell them. Ebay is not so kind on the price of pith paintings, but shops that cator to interior decorators will often pay top dollar, but they prefer sets...4, 6, 8 or more.

@lotusblack That's a hell of a seat those ladies are sitting on on the one on the right. Imagine that in real life!

@gfhandel Thank you for sharing your insight.

I am aware of the abundance of Chinese fakes, but I wasn’t aware they’ve infiltrated Christie’s, nor did I know of the Japanese interest in Chinese paintings- it makes sense given the study of painting was a shared study between Japan and China centuries ago.  Can you share where one can look online to buy paintings in Japan?

I’m not sure that I would agree that Western collectors are the ones to blame for placing such high values in certain artist’s names… my Chinese counterparts here in the USA have turned their noses to many a great painting I’ve owned because it was unsigned, despite the fine quality.

Since I don’t read Chinese, I mostly rely on comparative observations I’ve made from viewing museum collections.  

However, I certainly have bought pieces I felt had qualities of well known artists, but mostly when the price was quite low given the probability of forgery.

I saw that you also posted a beautiful Japanese painting on another thread. 

I have many Chinese and Japanese paintings. Can you share more about your experience, tips for buying, resources for identification/authentication?

I have sold a few with Christie’s, but as you said, there is a strong preference to accept works by only well known artists.

One exception was made fir a palace scene I owned - they took it with a low estimate, and despite some significant condition issues, it still did very well. 

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/asia/anonymous-17th-18th-century-38/127905?ldp_breadcrumb=back

@johnshoe my house isn’t big enough. Lol

@lotusblack yeah if I brought something like that home my wife would make me sleep on it outside.

@greeno107 Hey Tim, have you ever sold any fans through Christies? I'm just wondering if you have sent any to them for help in assessing them in the event you thought you might have a nice one but weren't sure who it was by, etc, and if you have done that how did it work out?

@johnshoe I have not sold any fans with Christie's, but two paintings - the one I've posted and an early work by Zhao Shao'ang that I sold in the Hong Kong sale in 2016.

My Christie's contacts includes one of their painting specialist, who is very generous with her knowledge, but my general rule is to contact them only when A) it is a piece that I already own (so I don't call them about potential purchases), B) the piece seems to be of extraordinary quality/value, and C) if the piece is something that I'm ready to sell.

Unless you are a person of immense wealth with a valuable collection (which I am not), I feel it is very important not to impose too much upon the specialists who are working dilegently every day to secure items for future sales, so I am careful about what I contact them about.

I have a few fan paintings that my daughter in law is selling on Ebay, and others not listed.  And, in my home and building, I have around 20-30 Chinese and Japanese paintings, and I can honestly say that I do not recall showing any of them to Christie's because while either I know the artist, and they have no history of selling at the financial level to be offered by Christie's, or I do not know the artist, so I haven't had the confidence that the piece is sufficient quality.

For these reasons, it would be great to have a resource here in the Forum, or even elsewhere if one exists, where there could be similar discussion as we have about porcelains, but about the attribution and authentication of paintings. Alas, I am not aware of such a resource.

The audience for collecting paintings is far smaller than porcelains, the written resources (especially those in English) are far more scarce, and there are few rules for authentication/dating that can be followed consistently as compared with porcelains.

Consequently, I am extremely grateful to the Chinese readers/speakers who are able to offer translations when I post, and do my best to conduct my research on my own.

However, ideally, it would be great if someone with extensive knowledge of paintings would create a resource that could be used by the non-Chinese reader/speaker,  that helped to identify paintings on the basis of subject matter, format (fan, scroll type, folio), and signature / seal.

That would be a daunting task requiring years (maybe decades) to get to the level of being comprehensive, but the resource would be invaluable.

There is one other issue, but perhaps it is just my perception.  Because the study of paintings is quite scholarly, the investment of time to achieve any degree of expertise is quite high.  I have noticed that painting collectors are quite guarded about giving out their knowledge openly/freely.  I understand their reasons to a degree, but in the end, none of us live forever, so if you don't approach life like a gardener, cultivating future generations of collectors, then the knowledge you've gained is lost when your time is up.

@greeno107 

I have dealt with a dealer in Kyoto by the name of Kristan Hauge who was very pleasant & knowledgeable about Japanese paintings and screens.  He might have the contacts to source Chinese paintings as well.

http://www.kristanhauge.com

PS. Did you catch my posting about a Sarasota, Fl. Asian auction?