The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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Ebay is the most popular place for buying antiques, but there are other sites on the web that you might want to have a look at. This is no recommendation, I just want to give you some idea about alternatives to Ebay. Please add your own experiences.
Catawiki: Catawiki auctions antiques and collectibles provided by different sellers. There is no buy-it-now, just auctions that run one week. They have experts judging the items, so the site doesn't seem to be as full of fakes and wrongly described items like Ebay, but of course it's still possible. Items are in the lower to mid price range, descriptions seem to be accurate and there is even an estimated price as a guideline for the bidder. Catawiki is located in the Netherlands and we meet old aquaintances like Shangrila Antiques, where you can buy with confidence, but also new sellers. There's a rating system for sellers like on Ebay. To bid you have to register. I have not had any experience yet with Catawiki, but maybe someone has and can tell more about it.
Trocadero: No auctions, fixed prices only. It describes itself as an online mall, where different sellers have shops. The sellers are responsible for descriptions, I don't think Trocadero controls what they offer. Prices range from low to high. There are sellers from around the world. I have made very good experiences with European sellers. Can't judge the US sellers because I never tried them to avoid import taxes. Many sellers are located in South East Asia. I bought some nice things from them for relatively little money that were shipped fast and reliable. However a bit of caution is necessary: They seem to have an endless supply of pre-Ming pieces in mint condition. I don't know if they are outright fakes or just restored beyond measure. Maybe there's both. Recently there are sellers from mainland China offering "antiques": keep off. Trocadero is like a shop window, so you don't have to register if you want to buy there.
Birgit
It's interesting, I got an eMail yesterday from Catawiki's site auction manager about discussing a cross-platform collaboration arrangement with BidAmount. We'll be talking next week.
From what I can see of Catawiki's site, they have a good setup but need to draw in much more material than they currently do. In order to accomplish that they, of course, must be able to convince sellers of the site's ability to draw traffic sufficient enough to realize good prices.
They may be able to get there by creating well-promoted auction events.
I've added a link at the bottom of the FORUM here for folks who want to check it out. They need members to build it out as an alternative to eBay, which isn't a bad objective.
Trocadaro is also a good site, I know folks who have used it for years and built up good following, but it takes time. They aren't especially good as drawing search engine traffic. They have massive amounts of content, yet rarely turn up in search results, or not as much as they should.
Best Peter
Peter
I contacted Catawicki a few months ago in relation to an item that they had in an upcoming sale. I received an email (after signing up) from them informing me that I was not eligible to bid as I lived in Australia.
I was surprised to say the least and forwarded them another email requesting more information as to why I was not able to bid etc.
They quickly replied with an apologetic email informing me that they were sorry and that hopefully in the future bidders from Australia will be able to do same.
All this despite their home page claiming to be an international company with millions of buyers from around the world!
Mark
That's a bit strange, Mark, because their sellers' ratings are full of Chinese comments, so it doesn't seem to be a Europe-only platform. Why exclude a country like Australia?
Birgit
Hi Shinigami,
No idea.
? Maybe they think we don't count LOL.
Mark
Hi Mark, could it be because of the Australian sale/purchase tax? I have noticed on other websites that they have had to update some stuff for Australia.
Best wishes.
imperialfinegems,
I am going to be talking with them this week, I'll inquire about the issue regarding Australia. I suspect it's some kind of regulatory issue. Nobody dislikes the Aussie's...
Best Peter
Peter
Dear Forum members,
I've been googling some online reviews of Catawiki's business activities, and all is not quite as rosy in the garden as one might hope.
I'm quite aware that you always have to ask who's writing the review. For instance, is it written by a competitor seeking to damage someone who's perceived as a commercial threat? But I've allowed for those considerations, and am still turning up criticisms that seem to me to be valid.
So I'd recommend Forum members to check out online critiques of Catawiki for themselves and make up their own minds.
All the best,
Alan
Hi Goldentoad,
Thanks for your input. As I understand the import duties for items under AUS$1000 the GST will now be across the board at the rate of 10% as of the 1st July 2018. All other purchases over $1000 remain the same, that is the purchaser is responsible for payment.
The onus is now on the vendor to collect/charge said tax on behalf of the ATO and not the purchaser as is with other countries worldwide.
If you are not a business and or have sales/turnover under $75000 pa then this new tax will not apply.
How this will even work remains to be seen.
This was to be implemented back in 2017, but due to pressure/threat from ebay and others to close down access to Australia it was forwarded to 2018.
Thanks Peter for raising the issue. It is much appreciated.
Mark
Out of curiosity I placed a bid on a Catawiki auction that ended yesterday. I am not really happy with the way these auctions work. All of the more expensive items have a hidden minimum price, something I also hate on Ebay. In this case it turned out that the seller set the minimum price on exactly the same amount that the experts had estimated as the value of the item, and that had seemed a bit overprized to me from the beginning.
Also you can't put a last minute bit, which is what makes Ebay so interesting. If someone bids within the last minute, the offer is prolonged for another minute again and again to give everyone the chance to outbid you (and the seller to extract the maximum gain).
In the hope that I might end with a lower price I put on a very high bid (in my opinion) but to my dismay this high price was shown as valid from the beginning. On Ebay your bid is only 1 EUR higher than the previous bid, no matter how much you offer. So I was almost glad when someone overbid me and met the minimum price. Nothing more happened for another minute, no bidding war, and I was glad that I had saved the money and someone else bought the slightly overprized article.
You might say I'm just dissappointed to have lost, but that's not the case. In my opinion the system has its disadvantages: there's no suspense, no possibility to make a deal by clever bidding. It would be better to offer the items as buy-it-now for the price these experts have set. Well, the seller has got what he wanted, the auction house gets its 9% fee (paid by the buyer), but every hall auction in a small auction house is more exiting.
Birgit
Dear Shinigami,
Quite so. The points you raise are only some of the criticisms I've already come across in reviews of Catawiki.
As a matter of interest, does the site explain how its 'experts' are selected and vetted? I haven't got as far as exploring that particular aspect of its business practice yet.
All the best,
Alan
Dear Alan,
they are still looking for experts, these are the requirements, in this case for French antiques:
https://www.catawiki.com/jobs/job/expert-antiques-france?gh_jid=1214416
Birgit
I have similar experiences with Catawiki like Shinigami. Very interesting platform and auction concept.
They have reputable experts and other kind of experts (who may not work there anymore IMO.)
There was an auction of Song Ceramics Collection from a Czech Professor. Most of them are fakes. After that I didn't see any similar auctions. I think they found out they hired the wrong expert.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Dear Shinigami and Xin,
Thank you for providing that link, Shinigami. I imagine the wish list for their French antiques expert would look very similar to any other wish list they post. Looking over this set of job specs, it's very loose, in my view. And Xin, you say that they hire reputable experts. Perhaps they do, but if as you also say they hired the wrong expert when the fake Song ceramic collection was offered for sale, then it necessarily follows that their vetting process leaves something to be desired. And that simply confirms my impression that the wish list is very loose!
Best wishes,
Alan
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