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Hi all -
Attached images of a Alms bowl, body diameter 18.5 cm, mouth diameter 17.8 cm, height 7.8 cm, foot diameter 7 cm, covered in a creamy-yellowish Ge type glaze, which features ice-crackles of different patterns. The interior glaze has undergone a change of colour to the centre and three quarters of the cavetto - possible due to what it’s been used for.
The dating of wares with such glaze types is very difficult, and having shown this piece to people both in the UK and Hong Kong there is, as yet, no real consensus of opinion regarding a date.
All comments/thoughts and opinions duly welcomed ...
Stuart
Forgot to mention:- the first two images of base/footrim taken by me recently on my iPhone - all others are from the dealer piece acquired from ...
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
your bowl is really beautiful. I like the two different crackle patterns, it seems difficult to achieve them that way. It looks so perfect that it could be modern, but I don't think it is, with the discoloring and the burned spot and also the skill that was needed to make the pattern. No idea as to age though. The paradox in Chinese porcelain is that old looking items are often modern, while truly old things can look new.
Birgit
I had a pair of Ge type glazed items and they don't give much away , they're really desirable though as you already know , My first instinct was late 18th-19th century mid Qing. Don't know why it's just the well shaped foot and nice overall shape to the bowl.
Could just as easily be early 20th century as well.
Carl
Dear Stuart,
You bowl seems to have the iron wires and golden thread. I guess the dating of your nice bowl will come down to the feel, weight and the finish to the base/ footrim etc. Very attractive item.
Michael
http://gotheborg.com/glossary/ge.shtml
http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/ctenglish/2018/cs/201803/t20180308_800120827.html
Hi Birgit, Carl and Michael -
Firstly many thanks for your thoughts/opinions and links posted, all very much appreciated .... (weight is 704 grams).
The bowl certainly exhibits 'Jinsi tiexian' - golden thread and iron wire - type crackles in the glaze, especially the interior and some exterior areas, especially near the base. But whether these where made by staining when first made, or over a period of time due to use/handling is an interesting point, because most of the exterior glaze is covered, predominantly, by a much larger dark crackle, with much smaller 'ice-type' crackles in between?!
These crackle difference have caused much discussion between dealers, fellow collectors and academics who have seen/handled this piece. All agree it is has elegance and beauty, and none think it is later then 18th C, but there opinions start to differ regarding date ...
Guan and Ge crackled wares - a 'parodox' indeed - the dating of ...!!? ?
Stuart
A nice looking Bowl,can you confirm if pottery or porcelain ?
It is the uniformity that makes me pause when I look at the inside of your Bowl.
I have been very lucky in obtaining 3 pieces of Guan ware of differing ages.
1st piece a Longquan Guan 14th-15th c,so Yuan or early Ming Vase. Sold as 18th c by my local auction house.
Only 1 person thought that it was genuine on Gothenburg so I took it to the ex head of Sotheby’s Asian art division and put it down in front of him and let him prod and examine it without any input from me. He advised the rest.
The second piece is a Song or Yuan Guanyao barrel shaped pot with studding to the top edge,identified on Gotheborg as such. I thought it was Ming at a guess.
The third piece I believe (and Giovanni doesn’t) is a small 18th c Bottle Vase.
Opinions will always differ and it is really when you come to sell your pieces that the final analysis counts.
Actually after looking at the bigger images of your Bowl I think it is stunning. The external guan larger craquelure has that grey and not jet black look and I agree that an 18th c attribution is probable.
Apparently,the dark staining is Indian ink under multiple glaze. Unsure of the Golden thread component. My last Vase also has golden thread.
Vic
Hi Stuart,
Your bowl must be made later than 18th century. Just like the other guys said, this piece is too perfect. Could be 20th century or later.
Xin
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Hi Vic,
The Yenyen vase is indeed a Ming Longquan ware. You're right. And the last one is a 19th century Ge-galzed ware. Very beautiful one.
And by the way nice collection.
Xin
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Thanks Xin for your comments.
Stuarts Bowl does look too perfect but sometimes it actually is the case and I think it is a very very good piece.
When we are used to seeing flaws we become too cynical when a perfect genuine piece is placed before us.
Vic
Hi Vic and Xian -
Thank you both for your thoughts/opinions on this piece, again, very much appreciated.
Vic - the piece is certainly porcelain. You have some very nice pieces, the Ming Longquan vase is beautiful ...
Xian - I have every respect for your thoughts on this piece, from previous post you obviously have very good knowledge on a wide range of objects and the dating of such.
However, I respectfully disagree with your attributed dating. Some of the individuals who had seen/handle this bowl included two London dealers with 40 plus years of experience, four collectors, one of which work for the highly regarded London dealers Bluett’s from 1978 until 1993, two others have been collecting for over 50 years. In Hong Kong, a now retired Prof from one of the top University museums, who has published numerous articles and curated exhibitions in all fields of Chinese art and is still, even now, regarded as one of the top three people in the world on Chinese ceramics has also seen handled this bowl.
All of these date this piece no later then 18th c, it is whether it could be early that opinions start to differ ...
Absolutely no offence is meant to you, or any one else, by the above comments, I passed on only these individuals comments and opinions on this piece ...
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
The fact that it is porcelain means it is Jingdezhen ware copying Song rather than stoneware from Longquan and other places.Being porcelain can account for its perfect condition;Stoneware and Pottery very rarely are prestine.
These wares were copied in Yongzheng and Qianlong so your piece is no earlier than 18th c.
I think that it is a good piece and more opinions would be welcome,perhaps Peter and Giovanni in particular ?
Vic
The bowl does look very stylish. That shape was copied in the 1960's, I can imagine it in Remington Steels apartment that he leased off Roger Moore from the set of The Saint. Damn fine bowl. Does look so perfect.
I cal it the Teflon Bowl.
Edit: Have you considered looking at Museum pieces and try find something similar to that shape. If that is a Modern bowl then there must be many of them around. The fact it is rare or if you can find something as fine in a museum or even for sale somewhere.
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