Tang and Song tea ware museum reference book , not what I collect but still some nice images , shame I cannot read it. lol

Oh and sorry for the bad photo's.

@carlyoung Nice book  ? 

Hi Xin and other members,

If you find and or think this book is fake then ignore it. It is very simple!

I would suggest that you google him (Chen Ming-Chieh or Mitchel Chen) and judge for your self. Something that Xin has failed to do, and just gone on a troll attack.

And yes I would welcome Peter's input.

This book was only put on the site as a reference only. As you know Xin there are hundreds of books on the market dealing with jade, just like the one kindly provided by carlyoug which is great if you read chinese. If not well.....

If forum members have any other recommended books preferably in english, then please submit them to the forum.

I have dealt with Mr Chen over a number of years and found him knowable and honest with respect to opinion on a number of items that I submitted to him.

I can not stress enough the fact that you can not judge an jade artifact by just one picture. If you can you are better than myself. If you submit just one picture of interest to the major auction houses they will ask you for for detailed pictures of same before giving an auction estimate.

Xin you state they are obvious fakes. Kindly expand why you claim that and provide detailed evidence to back up your claims on each one.

Mark

Thanks Xin

I have a few books , but would like to specialise is in Kangxi so I need to lookout for books in relation to that.

Posted by: carlyoung

Thanks Xin

 

I have a few books , but would like to specialise is in Kangxi so I need to lookout for books in relation to that.

Hi Carlyoung,

I bought a couple of books about Transitional + Kangxi porcelains. Will share with you later.

Xin  

Posted by: imperialfinegems

Hi Xin and other members,

If you find and or think this book is fake then ignore it. It is very simple!

I would suggest that you google him (Chen Ming-Chieh or Mitchel Chen) and judge for your self. Something that Xin has failed to do, and just gone on a troll attack.

And yes I would welcome Peter's input.

This book was only put on the site as a reference only. As you know Xin there are hundreds of books on the market dealing with jade, just like the one kindly provided by carlyoug which is great if you read chinese. If not well.....

If forum members have any other recommended books preferably in english, then please submit them to the forum.

I have dealt with Mr Chen over a number of years and found him knowable and honest with respect to opinion on a number of items that I submitted to him.

I can not stress enough the fact that you can not judge an jade artifact by just one picture. If you can you are better than myself. If you submit just one picture of interest to the major auction houses they will ask you for for detailed pictures of same before giving an auction estimate.

Xin you state they are obvious fakes. Kindly expand why you claim that and provide detailed evidence to back up your claims on each one.

Mark

Dear Mark,

Simple example for you 

Title picture of Sanxingdui culture jade figure (definitly fake) from website of Prof. Chen

https://exoticjades.com/2017/02/04/sanxingdui-culture-jade-collection/

Please compare with pictures of archaeological finds in Sanxingdui (Sanxingdui museum Chengdu)

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6a978c5a0102wmih.html

Do you see any difference? 

I think I will start a new topic about jade  ? 

Xin

The absolut classical book for jade collector

Ancient Chinese Jades From the Grenville L.Winthrop Collection in the Fogg Art Museum, Harvard University

by Max Loehr

Due to lack of archaeological information in 70s, many pieces were dated wrong.

Part of the collection was sold at Sotheby's with corrected informations.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2016/jades-archaiques-de-chine-pf1627.html

Posted by: carlyoung

Thanks Xin

 

I have a few books , but would like to specialise is in Kangxi so I need to lookout for books in relation to that.

Books for Kangxi /17th C. porcelain fans

For professional collectors:

https://www.jieruitangcollection.com/

On the Jade Issue.

I've examined the images on the PDF file of the jades, checked his site and the very, very modest prices he is asking for his pieces. If I felt they were all authentic, I would buy them all immediately.

Before going on here,  let me say, I've done business with customers in China for nearly 40 years. To date, I've never seen any fine authentic antique Jades come out to the west legally.  Only on occasion can late low quality irrelevant late 19th and 20th C. pieces can be exported if they have no cultural value, even then it requires a piece by piece approval process by the government. More bother than the value of the items in most cases. 

First, the cover image of the Sanxingdui jade figure does look very suspect for a number of reasons from a design and condition standpoint.  None of the originals have ever been offered for sale as far as I know. It's important also to keep in mind, this culture's artistic work in jades and bronze wasn't really known of until the 1980's. Since the discovery, I am unaware of any pieces from this discovery being on the market but are guarded rather heavily. Being caught taking any of them would be a death sentence in China. 

I did some looking at Prof. Ming Chen. On his FAQ's page he makes a few claims which are absolutely untrue.

• First, antique jades, especially neo-lithic jades cannot be exported for ANY reason without specific Government approval and is generally only done working with western Museums. 
• He claims they can be exported if they aren't listed as "Stolen", this is utter nonsense, it's totally illegal and has been for decades and are incorporated into agreements not to import with the US State Department, the EU and another hundred countries around the world, on top of being 100% against the law in China. 
• He argues the auction houses refuse to take his jades here is what he said: Q4. Why most of the experts of established auction houses deny my items?
  A4.  The reasons are at least twofold. First, they don’t want to spend time to study your object, to deny it is the easiest way to close the case( The content of their reply letter even preformed ). Second, they want to monopoly the market, they don’t want to see many other items in the market which  may lower the value of their transaction.  

What he is saying is the same excuse that lunatic on YouTube uses about his Song Ru Ware, Yuan and Qing porcelain collection not being taken as consignments by the major auction houses.  I know the department heads fairly well of several of the large auction houses, they would leap at the chance to sell his pieces if they were authentic. In China, Guardian or Poly Group would take the jades in this discussion instantly if they were old ones. They, however, cannot be exported from China.  

It's important to bear in mind, under current laws, it is impossible for Christie's, Sotheby's, Bonhams to sell Chinese antiques inside the Mainland, for one reason, foreign buyer's cannot participate due to export laws.  They do sell wine, jewellery etc..but not Chinese antiques. 

I am sorry to have gone on so long. 

Best Peter

Here is the Yangdetang collection whihc just sold for comparison purposes. 

http://online.flipbuilder.com/mpdm/vfsu/mobile/index.html#p=1

Thanks Xin

That's great , I am thinking of purchasing 2 of those books to start me off on my journey.

Posted by: plcombs

On the Jade Issue.

I've examined the images on the PDF file of the jades, checked his site and the very, very modest prices he is asking for his pieces. If I felt they were all authentic, I would buy them all immediately.

Before going on here,  let me say, I've done business with customers in China for nearly 40 years. To date, I've never seen any fine authentic antique Jades come out to the west legally.  Only on occasion can late low quality irrelevant late 19th and 20th C. pieces can be exported if they have no cultural value, even then it requires a piece by piece approval process by the government. More bother than the value of the items in most cases. 

First, the cover image of the Sanxingdui jade figure does look very suspect for a number of reasons from a design and condition standpoint.  None of the originals have ever been offered for sale as far as I know. It's important also to keep in mind, this culture's artistic work in jades and bronze wasn't really known of until the 1980's. Since the discovery, I am unaware of any pieces from this discovery being on the market but are guarded rather heavily. Being caught taking any of them would be a death sentence in China. 

I did some looking at Prof. Ming Chen. On his FAQ's page he makes a few claims which are absolutely untrue.

• First, antique jades, especially neo-lithic jades cannot be exported for ANY reason without specific Government approval and is generally only done working with western Museums. 
• He claims they can be exported if they aren't listed as "Stolen", this is utter nonsense, it's totally illegal and has been for decades and are incorporated into agreements not to import with the US State Department, the EU and another hundred countries around the world, on top of being 100% against the law in China. 
• He argues the auction houses refuse to take his jades here is what he said: Q4. Why most of the experts of established auction houses deny my items?
  A4.  The reasons are at least twofold. First, they don’t want to spend time to study your object, to deny it is the easiest way to close the case( The content of their reply letter even preformed ). Second, they want to monopoly the market, they don’t want to see many other items in the market which  may lower the value of their transaction.  

What he is saying is the same excuse that lunatic on YouTube uses about his Song Ru Ware, Yuan and Qing porcelain collection not being taken as consignments by the major auction houses.  I know the department heads fairly well of several of the large auction houses, they would leap at the chance to sell his pieces if they were authentic. In China, Guardian or Poly Group would take the jades in this discussion instantly if they were old ones. They, however, cannot be exported from China.  

It's important to bear in mind, under current laws, it is impossible for Christie's, Sotheby's, Bonhams to sell Chinese antiques inside the Mainland, for one reason, foreign buyer's cannot participate due to export laws.  They do sell wine, jewellery etc..but not Chinese antiques. 

I am sorry to have gone on so long. 

Best Peter

Here is the Yangdetang collection whihc just sold for comparison purposes. 

http://online.flipbuilder.com/mpdm/vfsu/mobile/index.html#p=1

Thank you Peter for helping us clarify this issue. Your comment is very professional and we can learn so much from you.

All the best

Xin

Ha , very funny , 'That lunatic on Youtube' I know who you mean.