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Hello all:
I found an attractive monochrome cobalt blue vase with white relief features on eBay and was pleased to see it again as a featured item on this website. Peter also commented on the vase (see photographs below) in his weekly You Tube video of August 21, 2020 and considered it genuine. He thought it might sell for between about $800 and $1,000. I looked into the eBay listing. The seller appears to be the same California seller that had been discussed on the forum recently as peddling a dubious Chinese item. (See Forum link) Peter had also commented on that item last week in his You Tube video of August 14, 2020 and had described the provenance as being suspicious. The seller claims to have obtained this vase as well as the prior item from the Collection of C. Philip H. Living Trust (Pebble Beach, California). If one investigates this further one find that this incomplete reference is to the C. Philip Cardeiro Collection of Chinese Art. Part of this collection was put up for auction at Christie's in May 2014 - see link.
As can be seen from the auction information the seller has copied and pasted the language used by Christie's on to his listing on the eBay website. The erudite general description of Mr. Cardeiro and his collection description from Christie's is followed by language describing the vase which suggests that English is not the seller's first language. The vase itself looks real at least as far as the foot is concerned (see image below). However, if the vase is from the Cardeiro collection why does the seller not post proof of that on his eBay posting as many other sellers do to prove provenance? Surely, an invoice is all that would be required. Another factor that raises suspicion is that the vase which is up for auction on eBay tonight (8-22-2020) is currently at $1,525. This is much higher than Peter's estimate. If one looks at the list of bidders (using show automatic bids) (see link) there is a mysterious first time eBay bidder - 0*** who keeps raising the bids. Of course, this could be a bidder who has never bought on eBay before and is greatly anxious to acquire this particular vase. However, it also raises the possibility of a shill bidder. I had planned to bid on this vase which I think is quite lovely. There are, however, several suspicious elements here that I think should lead anyone interested to resist that temptation. I would like to hear the opinions of others particularly Birgit and Giovanni who commented on the dubious brush pot recently offered for auction on eBay by this seller.
Regards,
Errol
Hello all:
This is an interesting spectacle. With 37 minutes to go, the vase is up to $3,000 with 66 bids. The new eBay bidder - 0 has the leading bid. See eBay link. If bidder 0 has the top bid, he/she, if a genuine bidder will have paid an auction house price for a rather lovely vase. On the other hand, if this is a shill bidder, whoever is behind this will be hoist with his own petard. My guess is that we will see this vase back on eBay in the near future.
Regards,
Errol
Hello all:
The mysterious first time eBay bidder - 0*** won the vase at $3,100 (See eBay link). We will never know. Was this a shill bid or a determined buyer who absolutely loved the vase? (See eBay Link).
How many more items will we be seeing from the mysterious Collection of C. Philip H. Living Trust (Pebble Beach, California) and offered by the same seller in California. If you were an unsuccessful bidder on this vase I might suggest a turquoise double gourd vase for your consideration (see photographs). See eBay link.
This is supposedly a Qianlong vase and you can get it for the bargain price of $299. I understand that it is from the Rockefeller Estate.
Isn't the field of Asian art a lot of fun these days?
Errol
The vase that Peter endorsed is a provincial piece of Qianlong period. Therefore the price was in the right range. However, the other vase that you referred to is a brand new one from Nanyang, China. The two items shouldn’t be compared together.
Hi Errol,
to me it looks like bidder ni won the vase for $3100. Your mysterious bidder 0- left at $750. I can’t see signs of shill bidding, at least not in my Ebay app. Nevertheless the vase looks strange to me. There’s something in the surface and bottom that makes me doubt. Let’s wait for other comments.
Birgit
Hi Birgit:
Nice to see you again. I was watching the auction in real time and 0 did win the vase for $3,100. The reason I thought at first that he/she was a shill bidder was that he/she automatically raised the price after every "normal bid" and then there was the fact that 0 was totally new to eBay.
I'm interested in your observation that the vase looks "strange." I assume you mean that it does not look of the period to which it was attributed. The foot looks old although you know more about that than I do. I found your old post from July 2020 on the brush pot from the same seller also originating allegedly from the Cardeiro collection.
I wonder whether this seller is just attributing anything to an origin in the Cardeiro collection? Even if the vase is old, a false attribution would raise its value. If the vase is both new and falsely attributed that is far worse. The vase is rather pretty and I liked it enough to consider bidding on it, but none of this added up. It's all pretty suspicious or "strange" to use your description.
Best regards,
Errol
Hi Errol, in connection with my own bids I have noticed that the abbreviations used by Ebay are just a kind of alias and are not the first and last letter of the bidder‘s Ebay name. Also they obviously seem to change after the item is sold.
You do me too much honor. I don’t know much about Qianlong items, just having handled a few of the more common export items. I know nothing about things made for the Chinese market at this time. What makes me say „strange“ is rather a gut feeling. The vase looks too perfect to me.
Birgit
Dear Erroll and all,
I have serious doubts on this vase. I have never seen a similar one, and that’s alone makes me suspicious.
In my opinion, having never seen a similar one, if genuine it is a rare item.
Now, consider that the seller is Chinese, apparently (and I outline “apparently”) based in USA.
Is it believable that a Chinese guy, with a rare, mark and period, Qianlong vase like this one, would sell it on ebay and not directly to China? Almost impossible in my opinion.
The winning bidder is almost surely a shill bidder. Zero feedback, and this is the ONLY item on which he has placed bids.
I didn’t see Peter’s video, but I found it strange that he makes a so low estimate for a Qianlong double gourd vase, and even more being marked.
Any Qianlong vase of this shape and size, regardless the type of decoration, is worth more than that.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Peter on his weekly video said he thought this was C19th rather than qianlong , and rare, with an unusual colour and decoration. It's quite a good size, so $3000 may be excessive but not by so much, imo. If the winner is a new bidder , we can expect non-payment and the vase to be relisted sooner or later
tam
Hi Errol, I didn’t bid on that vase that Peter recommended. As a matter of fact, I always run away from this type of provincial examples that comes with a mark, no matter whether it’s of the period or not. I prefer to buy examples without any marks by solely judging the shape, paste, glaze, and enamel. I feel that marks are often meaningless and they distract me so much that I can’t focus on other more important factors
Dear Tam, thank you for reporting what said by Peter. I understood from Erroll that he found it genuine Qianlong, and that sounded strange to me, especially for the low estimate that he did, if Qianlong.
Regards,
Giovanni
According to Peter it was early 19th century. Without wanting to doubt Peter‘s authority I’m still not convinced. But maybe it’s just the picture quality with the strange reflections from the window. They make it difficult to really see the item.
Birgit
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