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Hello, I won this wucai bowl today. I think there's a chance it's wanli (don't😂 laugh...) I did a fair amount of research, so thought it was worth a punt... I thought the enamels were convincing and the wonky shape (perhaps not wonky enough?) The mark is a bit wired but there are a large variety of wanli marks, including some with this character on the top left.
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Here's a closer shot of the dragon.
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Not an expert by any means on these but it doesn't look carefully drawn enough to me, the dragon especially, and the mark is seemingly sloppy. Also the dirty foot is odd to me it seems that some of the "dirt" made its way off of the foot onto the base, the inner corners of the foot.
Hopefully Stuart will pop in...
Jeremy
@jbeer2121 thanks Jeremy, wanli ware are notoriously sloppy..
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/A_PDF-738
It looks like a copy sloppy is not a form of authentication even thought they are crude they still have a flow.
Thomas,
I think they are less "sloppy" but loose but with purpose, I have had a few, and have one Wanli piece, it is loosely decorated, but the decoration flows. Never had a Wanli wucai piece though, so I could be wrong.Â
Jeremy
@thomasumjohnson I think the rendering is really fantastic and very much in the style of Wanli wucai - it also looks quite old.
What is the size of this bowl? Specifically, what is the size of the foot rim?
I have a problem with the mark appearing to look so large in proportion to the foot rim. The characters are awfully tightly written...kind of a Japanese thing going on with the writing.
I haven't even taken a look at Google, so this is just a gut response....my gut says it is Japanese ... perhaps quite early.
The origin of the square shape seems to be Jiajing period ...
https://www.christies.com/lot/a-small-blue-and-white-square-cup-6194556/?intObjectID=6194556&lid=1
The writing in the mark might be proportionally correct, but that double square seems to be drawn too close to the footrim. Compare to this very small Wanli wucai dish with square mark...
@greeno107 thanks greeno, it's 12cm wide... I was taken by the opaque enamels, specifically the yellow and green.. Â
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@thomasumjohnson I totally understand... it is quite pretty. I think when you put it side by side with the Christie's plate, you can see some significant differences in the color of the blue and the manner of the mark.
Your bowl is about 3 times the size of the plate, yet the mark on the plate is well within the foot rim.
Over the years, I have bought some very convincing wucai works made in Japan during the late 19th c. to early 20th c. with Chinese marks. They seem to have the enamels and overall aesthetic near perfect to Wanli wares.
Hopefully, Stuart chimes in.... I wouldn't want you to just take my word on this one... it is a bit earlier than what I normally deal with.
@greeno107 thanks again... Here's a comparison of the dragon to a Christie's example. The enamels look very similar to me. Crystallization in the greens. Also the wear is similar.
 The actual outside of the Christie's bowl is much cleaner... Â
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6160323
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This is a similar size, but perhaps a little bit bigger..
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Are there any 3 toe Wucai dragons from the period?
@thomasumjohnson Well, as I said, I do think iit is quite beautiful, completely in the style of Wanli wucai, and it looks old... How exactly can you tell a wear from 100 years ago from wear that is from 400 years ago? If you can tell, then you've got me beat.
However, in this case I think the design of the dragon having 3 claws might be a tell. I suppose it is not impossible for it to be 3 claws in Chinese art, but generally only Yuan pieces or earlier have 3 claws.
I think the comparison of the dragons show some differences that make me lean towards Japanese...3 claws...happy face rather than fierce.
However, when comparing the side decoration... it lines up very nicely with Wanli period examples.
One final thought.... the body of Wanli wares seem to be a bit askew...the edges of bowls and plates are often warped a bit, or slightly concave. Your bowl, at least what I see inthe photos, has a nicely formed body.
I admit...I am not certain on the origin/age of this bowl...so, as my golden rule tells me to say... I don't know. I'm sure others will have more valuable input than me.
@greeno107 thanks for the input, I see what you mean about the 3 claws...  The only thing I can find at the moment is that wanli winged dragons don't seem to have any claws.  I didn't think see it before, but it appears as thou the dragon within my bowl has wings.... Or am I imagining it? In which case could it be in the transformation stage between a clawed and a winged dragon? Something I'll have to look into...
Here's a wanli winged dragon from Bonhams...  It has a similar shape to mine,not too wonkyÂ
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https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22235/lot/134/
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