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If i was looking at these from a photo for the first time i would say they are copies , 20th century , they look too clean and fresh to my eyes , something off , but saying that monochromes are notoriously hard to date especially for the novice.
Carl
On picture 5 they look slightly irregular which might speak for a greater age. Or is it just a photo distortion?
Birgit
Hi Adrian,
I am afraid I also know very little about monochromes and due to my lack of knowledge would most likely have felt these were not Ming. My reasoning is as follows - probably erroneous but still, here goes:
The shape is very curvy - are Ming meipings rather more straight down with just a mild inward curve after the swell of the shoulders? These have more of a waist. But maybe the stouter shape is only true of larger items?
I know unglazed bases are fine but aren't they often flat or if they do have a foot rim, then should it be, proportionally, shallower or broader or flatter?
Sorry if that is all totally wrong!
Julia
I have just had a quick look around and found some Ming (or so it is claimed) meipings more like this shape but they don't seem to have that foot profile - I mean the way it looks as though the vase is on a small pedestal. I also saw a couple in this colour (allowing for screen differences etc) but not glazed inside.
I still don't know whether or not they are genuine, but am looking forward to finding out what the final consensus is.
Julia
Thank you dear Julia. I may provide other photos as well.
Very exciting to see if some other regulars will respond.
Wish you a good evening (Oslo-time) ?
I’m a complete novice but thought I’d test myself!
these look more like early (ish) Qing bases?
The glaze looks think like a ‘wash’, but that may be the photos?
Nic
Hi Adrian,
What kind of material are they made of ? It doesn't look like porcelain. Or is this just dirt on the foot?
Chris
These are certainly a puzzle. The photos are good, but blur when enlarged in a new tab, so it's hard to see the detail.
To me the foot shape looks more C18th than earlier or later, but the colour of the unglazed base and foot is not very typical for C18th pieces, and looks more like C19th. I think you can see in the wear on the foot, and at the thinning of the glaze at the mouth rim, evidence of the white porcelain body. Ming monochromes seem to have very white bodies, and a kangxi or transitional foot/base would also be much whiter, probably.
The rings around the whole body , either from potting or from the applied glaze, are also quite unusual. Normally older monochrome glazes are applied by blowing a fine spray onto the vase , and this shouldn't produce the ringed effect. The slightly bulbous and heavy shape of the vases also to me look more C19th than earlier, as do the glaze imperfections at the shoulder.
So I would lean more towards later Qing , but I really don't know.
tam
I think they are of transitional period. The shape is typical for Ming. But the foot puzzles me a little bit. Why it's so brown?
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The bass look a little more buff-coloured in the last photo? The one on the left in particular.
Dear Adrian,
can you disclose at which Auction house you have bought them, and the place? To be clear, Bonhams San Francisco is not the same as Bonhams London, to make an example.
I have several doubts about these being Ming.
The blue is very dull, similar to the Japanese blue. It should not be matter of picture, because you have shown pictures taken by two different cameras, hence different settings and light source, so it must be that blue.
I agree with Julia about the shape, the ratio between the bigger and the smaller diameter should not be so high.
The small size, not impossible but unusual.
The color of the exposed paste. It looks different from the burnt brown that can be seen both during Ming and the 18th century.
The thin glaze.
The fact that they are an intact pair. Not impossible but quite uncommon.
The apparent lack of surface wear, both on the foot and on the largest area of the body. Can you see a convincing surface wear there?
Giovanni
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