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Hi all,
I just purchased these two broken plates with the hope of getting them restored at some point. They might not technically be worth it, but it'll be a labor of love. Unless somehow I'm convinced it's really not worth it :-p Do they look right for 18th century Chinese export ware (maybe for the French market)? The design is somewhat stiffer than what I usually see on famille rose ceramics, and I'm still new to what colors are appropriate for certain time periods.
Also, I've seen unglazed bases on larger porcelain pieces, like platters and chargers, but not with any consistency. Is there a rhyme or reason to unglazed bases like these on Chinese plates?
I found one matching platter on 1stDibs with the same design, but I couldn't find any other examples online so far.
Thanks!
How interesting. They are very pretty and some of the enamels on the flowers have a Chinese look, but I have not see Chinese plates with that base, only platters. They look European in style to me, too.
I can see differences in the grass around the birds, but the brownish flower with that missing petal at the top of the plate is the same on both. Could they be printed outlines, coloured by hand? I can't enlarge them very well to see.
I have just remembered what they remind me of: a Moustiers plate I sold recently. The only thing is, the base was fully-glazed, but it may be worth having a look.
The platter on 1stDIBS looks authentic to me. I wonder why they don't show the back side and foot rim, I would certainly want to see it before spending €2590. Reminds me of an Ebay purchase where I asked the seller for a picture of the back and he said he didn't take one because there was no mark.
Birgit
Recently, I asked a seller on a French site if there was a mark on the back of a chinese item and could I have a photo. I was told there was no point as the mark was in Chinese. 🤣
I will try to fond the 1stDibs one. They ask high prices and I think many sellers on there do not show the base so that interested buyers will contact them and the seller can initiate a conversation.
Found it. Yes, that looks genuine. I still don't think these are though as they are far less animated and the colours are different. Maybe European copies or replacements if this was a service?
@shinigami I know! For the $$ they want, at least throw in a picture of the base. These plates are still being shipped to me, but from what I can tell the broken areas where the rough porcelain shows through appear to be white.
@Julia I think there are a lot of "slight" differences in the renderings; I'll have to take better pictures once they arrive. These plates are on the larger size, 12" in diameter. They were sold as chargers--so maybe that's why they have unglazed bases? The pictures on 1stDibs for the platter look extremely saturated, so that might explain the color differences.
Thanks to both of you for your input!
@sharonp Good eye! That plate also has what appears to be kiln grit, so I thought maybe along with those scrapes it indicated that there were a lot of issues during the firing process for this piece. But I do see "Haviland" (no martinis needed). Can't wait to get these and solve this mystery!
Kaitlin,
I actually saw the listing and debated buying it, I just do not need any more projects. I think given their size the bases could have been unglazed, and I suspect French or Spanish market. I do like them and for the price I think a good buy. I wasn't able to find a published example, but was fairly confident that they dated to 1750-70.
As far as a restoration being worth it, maybe, especially if you like them, but a clean glue up, since the breaks seem clean, might be all they need.
Cheers,
Jeremy
@jbeer2121 Thanks, Jeremy! I'm a sucker for sad, broken pottery. Glad I'm not the only one. It really was a great price (plus I love them), so I had to do it.
@jbeer2121 I might follow through with your suggestion to try gluing them myself. I just got a quote from a local restorer and...wowzas 🤣
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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