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Hey!
I've been learning a lot from Peter Comb's videos on blue and white porcelain, but i must confess when it comes to actually examine a piece it is HARD, let me tell you! I've rarely seen blue and white vases on the auctions I went, most pieces are export famille rose cups, saucers, chargers and dishes. I feel confident looking at them, something about the decor is so characteristic and detailed.
Now with the pandemic I've only been "seeing" lots through the internet, and an upcoming auction came with three beautiful vases that are blue and white. Most I've seen in the last year were obviously copies, flat, wrong tone of blue, damaged foots, horrible drawings... Some of them sell some of them don't. This time, I have no idea. The cobalt is deep and the drawings look right.
Enough said, I feel they are copies, but i would like a second opinion. In the worst case, although not ideal, if all of them are fake i can decide on what i feel it is more pretty or bigger. But I'm still hopeful some of those are the real thing. NONE of them have a description, just "chinese vase".
From the foot they look Ming in style, but I honestly have no idea. I'm still learning a lot about blue and white!
FIRST VASE: Qing (???). A squared vase with nice lion handles and deep cobalt blue underglaze. It has a broken piece at the foot and seems to have been put back together. For me, generally, i see restored pieces as a good sign, but i can see forgers doing it.
SECOND VASE: Ming (???) The foot looks dirty, but from the pics it may be just dirt, as i can see some clean areas under it. The drawings look sloppy, but many original ming vases have sloppy drawings for me anyways. I've spent so long looking at it and I'm still super lost!
THIRD VASE: Okay, this one was my favorite although it is not the prettier. I love Celadon, just love it! It is a big vase (62cm) and the foot looks right! The paste is really white, you can see underneath the dirt on the foot a clear white paste as well! What turns me off is the execution of the drawing and how the bird is cut off between the two sections. Is it Ming or Qing (or none haha) ?
Thanks! I've been learning so much with the videos and the forum!! I am 22 and a enthusiast, trying to build bit by bit a small but growing collection of my own. I still don't have any "old" vases, neither do i feel confident to evaluate them yet. 🙁
In my opinion, the first vase is a new copy that tries to look like a Ming piece, but the shape is not right so it doesn't deserve any further study. The second vase is also a new copy that tries to look like a Yuan piece, however the iron red at the foot rim doesn't look natural at all. I am pretty sure that the third vase is an authentic late 19th century vase as the paste at the foot rim looks sandy, which is typical of the late 19th century.
I agree with above said, but would not buy the third vase. It looks like sawn apart in the middle and put together again. As you yourself noticed: why is the bird cut in half? It would disturb me each time I look at it. Stay away from this lot, someone has put together three rather worthless items.
Birgit
How odd. That effect of a break in the decoration is usually along the corner lines on the sides - although it wouldn't apply here. I don't think I have seen a horizontal line as noticeable, or pronounced, as this. It leaves the bird a mess, which seems incomprehensible. Could it be a fault during firing?
It looked an attractive vase at first sight, but sadly, I can't stop noticing that break, either.
Hi All,
Chinese vases were often constructed in two halves joined together with slip then fired and you can't see the join, unless the opening at the top is wide enough to see in side. On better quality large vase's they smoothed over the join inside with a wooden tool, sometimes you can detect to tool marks. As for this vase I think the advise given above is spot on. Although I have seen older vases that have for some reason revealed the join of the two halves they have all been with enameled decoration and it is the enamel that has cracked around the vase. Maybe due to being fired three times and on the third the two halves expand or contract at different rates. I can't enlarge the photo's to see if the vase is painted, I have seen that bird in two halves on transfer printed wares from other places.
Think this lot of vases best left alone as advised by wiser heads above.
Michael
I agree with Ubecha, the first two are obvious fakes, while the third one is a nice 19th century vase, with an uncommon decoration.
Pity for the large size (personal taste, in general I do not like very large vases).
There is a technical reason for the splitting of the decoration between the lower and upper part, although I do not know exactly which is.
This type of vases is not made in two halves like those mentioned by Michael; they are made with slabs, joined at the corners.
Here, the vase is completely covered with the celadon glaze, then the areas to be decorated are covered with a layer of white thick slip (you can see and feel by touching it that the decorated areas are in slight relief), on which the cobalt decoration is made, and then everything covered with a transparent glaze.
I do not know if there is or not a first firing between the initial celadon glazing and the last transparent glazing. Probably not. Probably, this multilayered glazes and slip would melt badly on the ribs/corners and that could be the reason for having it intentionally split there.
Regards,
Giovanni
PS: dear Julio, the above information, that not everybody knows, is a gift to reward your being a young enthusiast😊.
Hi -
The first vase is a modern 'pastiche', the motifs painted in the Yuan style, dragon/phoenix/clouds/waves and the modeled animal mask handles but the painting style, blue/glaze tone, overal shape/proportions and body characteristics are all wrong ...
The second vase is also modern, and is base on/coping a well known Yuan shape, the yuhunchun-ping, the overall design/motif combination is a direct copy of a famous, and much published, Yuan vase excavated from a tomb in Qingzhou, Shandong Province in 1985.
I find the third vase very odd, for the reasons commented on by Birgit Julia and Michael. The mask handles also seem two small and out of proportion, but such pieces are not really my area - so I will defer to more knowledgeable members here ...
I would leave all three well alone and walk away ...
Stuart
Dear Giovanni -
My apologies, we must have posted very close to one another!!
I hope you are well ...
Stuart
Hi, first of all, thank you guys so much!
I've been taking notes of everything and reading all your contributions carefully! Maybe someday i can post some drawings and notes of my notebook on the "share your favourite things" board! 🙂
Seeing now, the cobalt blue from the second piece seems off! And the third vase break in decoration seem strange too, I don't know wether firing can make those two pieces so far apart. I decided to save the money i would bid on this auction and wait for a better opportunity, so when i come across a good piece i have more chances of getting it.
I was just left with a question, that squared shape of the first piece can be seen on later qing pieces? Or it is just a contemporary shape / rare shape that do not turn on the market that is a red flag from the start on?
Best regards for everybody, and thanks for the learning! Maybe it is better to walk away this time 🙂
Julio
Dear Stuart, you are most welcome!
Dear Julio, probably I have not been clear or you have not understood what I did write. The third vase has a technical reason for having the decoration split in two separate parts. It is not a damage, not a firing problem, not a defect.
Although I do not know exactly which is the reason, it must be related to the particular technique that I have described.
The vase is a nice one, very nice and that type of raised decoration, that can be found since Kangxi, is not common.
I am not inviting you to buy the vase, I am just trying to tell you what it is.
Giovanni
I am a little bit late to the party here. 🎉😂
I really do like the third vase posted. The decoration/style reminds me of something I can't recall atm.
Despite its flaws I believe it's worth buying if the price is right. Of course the other two are not worthy of mention.
Mark
Giovanni,
The vase is going to auction in a few minutes, if i buy it surely i can take some pics! In the worst scenario i can share with you all pictures the auction house made available! 🙂
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