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So I bought this fine vase last year via eBay from an established LA-dealer, who had described as an antique Qianlong marked (but not of the period) falangcai vase. What struck me about it was, that it seems as the palette of colors of the enemals is identical to a very fine Qianlong M&P 'european subject' gallbladder vase sold at Maucau CITIC Auctions for HKD 138,000,000 and that they are possibly done by the same hand:
https://read01.com/oEAxL0.html#.W19X3VGrTcu
I later came across an article from The National Palace Museum about Yangcai porcelains:
http://www.npm.gov.tw/exh97/porcelains/en_overview.html
And if following the guidelines in this article especially "The use of Western-style flowers, such as the chrysanthemum and anemone, and the liberal use of Western floral compositions for a number of decorative patterns", and the rim decoration with the wan (卍) character suggests that this is 'yangcai' rather than 'falangcai' enemals.8
To be continued ...
Dear Corey,
your vase looks very nice, but I think it is recent because of several points: the modern looking foot, the smooth and shiny glaze, the strange color of the underglaze blue, the glossy gold color of the rim. I have often been wrong in my opinions, so let's wait for the experts. Sorry I can see no similarities with the European subject vase of your link, but the pictures are a bit small to really appreciate it.
Best regards
Shinigami
Birgit
The blue clouds around the base causes me to be suspicious of its age.
yes I agree this is very pretty, and well-painted,
but (and I also wait to be corrected in my views) the flowers and subject matter are very typically chinese ,
the underglaze blue looks like that found on modern cantonese enamel pieces, very bright, and not from the period ,
the mark in iron red is also not typical for qianlong pieces, I believe, and the footrim looks too thick and rounded to be C18th.
But the photos are not quite numerous enough or good enough .
Incidentally, you just don't find real qianlong mark and period imperial vases on ebay. If it were real , it would indeed be a 6 or 7 figure item.
tam
this is what I mean by modern cantonese blue
tam
this is what I mean by modern cantonese blue
tam
Certainly a pretty vase, but it looks quite modern to my novice eyes. I agree about the blue borders and the gold rim; as much as anything, I find them jarring elements in the overall design.
When I have concerns about the age or authenticity of something like this, then see it has a red qianlong mark, that always confirms my doubts. I may be wrong, of course. 🙂
Best wishes,
Julia
Dear Corey,
The vase you have is attractive, but I do not believe it is Qianlong mark and period.
Best wishes,
Alan
Back at the library. The computer was closing down yesterday, before I had finished my post. But thanks for the feedback anyway. The vase is not modern. I'm pretty sure about that. The smooth rounded footring is correct for a Qianlong period vase, I found several examples that matches when researching this. The glaze is smooth and shiny because it's very high quality porcelain. It's one of the aspects it shares with the european subject vase. The vase itself doesn't have much age signs except for minor enamel loss here and there and some fine scratches. The bright light blue color, which is not underglaze, but overglaze enamel, might seem off at first glance, but is actually characteristic for this kind of porcelain decoration, and also matches with the blue color of the enameled mark of the european subject vase as well as the blue enamel used in the clothing of the two ladies and the the gilding of the rim doesen't seem more glossy than the rim of the european subject vase to me. Here is a link with a zoom in function for a better comparison:
https://auction.artron.net/paimai-art5039840401/
The vase in focus share the gallbladder shape with the european subject vase. They appear different but are actually closely related. The link to Sotheby's below should illustrate the relation between the pear shaped bottle vase with an oval body and the pear shaped bottle vase with the more rounded body. Interestingly the emphasized rim flange and the rounded footring is also included in their defination ot the term - quote from the lot notes: "Of oviform body that extends into a cylindrical neck with an emphasized rim flange, and rests on a rounded footring with a recessed base that bears a six-character Qianlong reign mark, this vase is known as danping in Chinese which translates as ‘gall-bladder vase."
And last but not least: it seems to me that the Colors of the Enamels of the two vases are identical; that it is likely the very same enamels that have been used and therefore that they have been applied by the same hands. More pictures attached below for a side-by-side comparison.
But that vase on artron.net is also a modern fake. You can be sure any high value item on a chinese online auction site or listing is fake.
tam
Tam is right about the artron vase. The faces are 21st century. Qianlong faces depicting Europeans look completely different.
Birgit
Sorry, I was wrong , the artron vase is not being sold there but is probably the vase sold in Macau in 2013 for £10 million . But I don't see any real connection between it and your vase, apart from a similar shape.
tam
There is a similar vase at British Museum. Note that it has a very similar rounded footring and an iron-red seal mark on a white base, which is relatively uncommon but I have found several Qianlong period examples of this when researching it. At least the face of the lady to the right looks very similar.
The artron-site is a kind of auction summery site. It doesn't tell the fakes apart from the real ones. Some of the pieces sold by Maucau CITIC Auctions looks rather doubtfull to me too while some of the results they claim to have achieved seems rather excaggerated, but I also know that some of their lots have been purchased by very high end dealers while others have found their way into important collections including the imperial collection.
There is also a Qianlong period enamelled glass vase at British Museum that compares very well with the shape of my vase. I just came across this. It was one of the things I wanted to ask about, but now I finally found it myself.
The flowers depicted on the vase are: Magnolia, chrysanthemum, peony, crapapple, chamellia, anemone, lingzhi mushroom plus some unidentifed ones. The combination of magnolia, chrysanthemum, peony and crapapple is found on some very fine and very high value pieces in the imperial collection, for example these two:
https://www.npm.gov.tw/exh101/yongzheng/en/photo14.html
https://www.npm.gov.tw/exh101/yongzheng/en/photo05.html
And also on the Qianlong moonflask unsold at Christie's not so long ago where it is noted in the lot notes that: "The decorative combination of white magnolia (yulan 玉蘭), crab apple (haitang 海棠) and peonies (fuguihua 富貴花), seen in these panels, has an auspicious meaning, since the names of the flowers combine to form a rebus for 玉堂富貴 yutang fugui ‘may your noble house be blessed with wealth and honour’, since the first character of magnolia and the second character of crab apple combine to provide a rebus for 玉堂 yutang ‘jade hall’, which is an elegant way of referring to a wealthy household, while the peony is known as the flower of ‘wealth and honour".
http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2018/04/24/36347946.html
I agree that the vase is a rather difficult piece but with the appropriate resarch things start to clear up ...
Dear Corey,
sorry but I don’t understand you. What has in common your vase with that one of the Chinese auction (it’s a fake to me, anyway)? Or with the vase of the British Museum, that is painted on glass?
Same colors? And which importance has that? If you see a red Ferrari car or a red let say Chrysler car does it means that they are the same? Almost ALL the vases like your one, that can be found very often, has the same colors. They are extremely common colors.
Same shape? And then? It is one of the typical Chinese shapes, made in who knows how many examples.
And the motif too. Do you think that it is Qianlong because of the flowers? They are absolutely common!
Your vase is not Qianlong without the slightest doubt, has it has been immediately spotted by many here.
Why, instead of searching for rare examples of the Qianlong reign, don’t you search for common Republic and second half of 20th century examples? You will see that almost all them has the same colors (and MOST important, style).
Giovanni
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