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Sorry, I couldn't delete that last post. I am having trouble responding in this thread and it looks weird too.
I wanted to say I agree that these don't look right. There is a dainty quality to the comparisons that these bowls don't have. I find the yellow wrong as well, especially the large expanses of it on the undersides where it is quite overpowering the overall design. The tree doesn't look correct either.
The other thing is the base: it is like those on many copies, I bought one too once in a wucai style. I was inexperienced and didn't stop to think why no one was bidding (I did get it cheap!) nor did I notice till years later that the mark was upside down in relation to the decoration.
Anyway, I am sorry not to be more positive, I hope we are all wrong. If we aren't, where did you buy them and were they described as Yongzheng?
@shinigami Yeah the thread was odd looking yesterday but now it seems to be normal looking so hopefully you all are seeing that as well now. But I am still having issues with the pictures. If I click on them the screen goes black. It's weird.
I gave up on this thread yesterday, wrote a reply and it would not post. Nor would it let me like Birgit's post. My post just asked a rhetorical question, "where did you buy it and how much did it cost?" The answer will likely provide the answer as to whether or not they are new Chinese fakes. You can no longer rely on quality, because the new fakes are so good, handpainted and according to Nicolas Chow in an old video, so good that the majors have been fooled. I tried to second Birgit's suggestion of using the identification assisistant to see whatnPeter thinks about them. Sharon
Yes I was also having trouble viewing this thread.
These particular imperial doucai bowls are extremely rare and highly sought after if genuine.
These would need to be seen and handled in person.
Doucai and Wucai imperial pieces are being knocked off with some excellent copies floating about.
I am curious as to whether these have any notable provenance and where were they purchased?
Mark
Hi all -
I also had great issues with reading and responding to the first page of this thread …
I can add very little to Birgit @shinigami Julia @julia John @johnshoe and Mark @imperialfinegems thoughts and opinions on these but;
The overall painting style, enamel tones and mark writing completely lack the quality seen on authentic Yongzheng examples of such wares - everything is wrong …
Stuart
Good morning @imperialfinegems, @shinigami, @sharonp, @julia, @ming1449, @johnshoe, and thank you for the replies. Yes - I was seeing similar issues with the thread as well yesterday.
To answer @julia's question - I purchased these from an antique dealer on ebay. I paid $600 for the pair.
@imperialfinegems - no notable provenance, according to the dealer they were "purchased from a weathly collection of asian antiques & procelains" (surprise, surprise)
I am still waiting to hear back from Peter to see what he thinks. I've attached the photos again here in case the previous ones didn't render properly after the thread was fixed:
I also just noticed Sotheby's recently listed a similar bowl for comparison: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2024/arts-dasie-pf2407/a-doucai-narcissus-dish-mark-and-period-of
This always seems to violate the ‘common sense’ test. An Asian collector who has no idea of the value of his mark & period pieces. Easily in the range of $50,000 to $100,000 dollars being sold for a couple of hundred dollars. A dealer scoring a huge gain who sells them on E Bay for $600 instead of at a reputable auction house for a 1000 times that amount.
Why? That is an incredible chain of stupid people making stupid decisions!
@soccertechie That source would be the first red flag because these are major auction material were they authentic so why would any dealer sell them for 600 on ebay when they could let Sotheby's make them 10's of thousands? You can definitely find diamonds in the rough on eBay buy not typically of this imperial Qing variety. Occasionally estate sales can produce great finds like this, but not eBay or lower grade auctions.
@william I agree, but the way I see it is that there's a small amount of people with proper knowledge to authenticate such pieces, and if the seller had the same trouble I did with authenticating it, maybe it was overlooked? Perhaps their specialties are in other forms of art. Or someone inherited these and just didn't have the knowledge/resources before selling it. Isn't that how most treasures get discovered? I am always skeptical before purchasing such pieces as well. This particular seller had a lot of very valuable French paintings and jewelry, so my assumption was that they weren't very knowledgable about porcelain.
I wish you good luck with your lottery ticket. Sometimes, miracles do occur.
Would anyone have any advice if any of these would warrant a closer inspection? This is some of my collection that I've aquired via local estate sales, online auctions, antique shops, ect. They all have marks:
Daoguang:
Guangxu:
Yongzheng:
Qianlong:
Kangxi:
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!
The first one is Republic I think. Footrim and faux Daoguang mark are typical for that time. There's a rule about green eyed dragons that I have forgotten.
Birgit
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