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Hello everyone,
I would like to ask your opinion on this pair of jars.
I like the white paste and the general appearance. The decoration seems to me painted over a stencil, inverted sides in each vase. For the decoration I would say mid to late 20th century? but I would not be surprised if they are older. Any other information will be appreciated.
Best,
MB
Hi mb,
Modern around the 1980'S or later.
Mark
@imperialfinegems Hey Mark, is it mainly the artwork that tips you off to its age or is it also the footrim? I feel like I can see the recent date you suggest by looking at the art but I feel the foot kind of looks similar to feet from the early 20th late 19th so I would like to know if you can help me to know the difference by looking at the feet? Thanks for any insights! John
Hi Johnshoe,
The footrim at a glance looks impressive. However the style of the artists works suggests it's done with haste and rigid. The bat at the top rim is almost unrecognizable. The base design is consistent with later production.
It's important that one looks at the whole piece. Not just the foot/other.
Mark
@imperialfinegems Thanks for that insight which is all very helpful. I definitely see what you mean about the bat now that you point it out.
The leaves without outlines were found in Guangxu. There are many simple dishes in that style that look like part of the decoration was worn off. Also a thick, impure pink color is typical for late 19th century. Mirrored pairs of vases appeared in Republic. And the rubbed off gold rim in that special color is also early Republic. The bottom looks ok too. So my guess would be early Republic, but of course Mark could also be right with a more recent production. One would have to handle the vases personally. Have you tried Mark’s torch-test inside the vases?
Birgit
I think the base looks alright, for an older piece, but I am not sure. There are a couple of things that I would like to ask about.
That brown phoenix tucked away at the bottom. Why is it even there if it is going to look like that, instead of bright, beautiful and relevant? It seems an odd thing to do.
There seems to be an allover orange peel effect to the glaze, I noticed this on another item you showed us (can't remember what was decided about it) and I wondered at the time if it was an effect from lighting? I have seen orange peel on bowls from around the late 19th c, but not much later and not on jars like this. Is it acceptable? Or does it indicate a later copy trying to look older? Or maybe it is me seeing things that aren't there.
Julia
Hey MB,
I think any one of the above posters could be correct; and each with good explanations.
Personally I think this falls into the troublesome 1880-1920 late Qing/early Republic period range, which may explain the variety of well stated answers from others.
I would personally say Guangxu, but would not be surprised should it end up being a tad bit later.
Best,
-JRN
Could you please provide a picture of the inside as well as the lid?
Mark
This brings up something I was recently reflecting on. It seems that sometimes we notice undesirable or low quality aspects of a piece which leads us to believe they are reproductions, when possibly they were just poorly or uniquely done originals. It is something I am becoming aware of the more I study. Maybe one takeaway is that those might be pieces to avoid either way as they don't represent better quality. Of course, it all depends on taste and the purpose for acquiring.
Hello everybody,
There are really many possibilities between the 80s of the 19th and 20th centuries. What I like most about this vase is the dense white glaze, but for the mirrored decoration I would agree with Mark. However, I have just discovered that this method can also indicate Republic as Birgit mentioned. About the colors and the foot I have no basis to risk dating ...
Julia, the phoenix is a little clumsy, but I'm starting to like it: D, I don't know if I could see the orange peel effect, but it makes sense, I sometimes find very specific similarities in the pieces I've been posting, I believe that many of them have common origin.
Here are more pictures:
Best,
MB
The shape and manner of the porcelain jar (especially the flattened finial) is Guangxu. Copies usually miss this detail. Compare to this pair sold by Christie's:
Same color palate, too. IMHO, the quality of rendering on export ware during the Guangxu is usually just so-so, with M&P pieces sometimes showing some real quality, and naturally Imperial pieces looking quite fine. So, I have no problem with your jars a Guangxu.
Hi mb,
My mistake for posting my opinion earlier. Now I have seen the other images.
In my new submission it's could be guangxu. However I am leaning towards early republic period. So 1900-1920. It has that ribbed look inside confirming its been done by hand and not machine (post 1940's) It's definitely not 80's.
It's important to show all images both inside and out of possible.
Mark
Dear Mark,
You are absolutely right, I always forget to post the photos inside the vases, sorry about that! You had already commented on how to look at the ribs from the inside of the vase, but in the rush I ended up forgetting, but it is a point that I try to always take into account from now on. Thank you so much for always commenting on my objects, I really appreciate your help!
Greeno107, the shape and palette are really similar! Although the decoration of this vase seems to me much more precise and of higher quality than my pair ... but I still like them! Thank you very much to everyone who commented!
Best,
MB
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